When Was Adam Saved

Was Adam promised what Israel is promised? Are we today promised what His Nation was promised?

I do agree with you of OSAS today, but it was not always so for those justified in the OT, or before Damascus Road, as shown in my post on page four.

 

I think this is a good, thought provoking question.

Just pondering and am not sure, but maybe they were kicked out because their sin is what apparently allowed Satan entry into the world of men, and their sin brought on decay and death to the whole world.

Working the ground and being barred from Eden were consequences of their sin that they had to suffer. When we are saved, we are not necessarily saved from the consequences of sin.

As far as eating from the tree, since their bodies started aging and decaying after sinning, eating from the tree would have put them in a state of eternal decay, which would not have been pretty.

 

Well its a clear demonstration. First of all Adam and Eve tried to cover their own sin, just as people try to do today, to find and make their own righteousness. They used fig leaves!

Then God, who is rich in mercy came to them and clothed them in His provided clothing or covering of skins, which indicated shed blood.

All this shows their way was not acceptable to Him but He then provided the covering Himself!

Salvation is from the Lord! So scripture keeps telling us!! Man's efforts are unacceptable!

 

But the blood of animals cannot cover forever. Adam had to do the work himself as previously said. God did not shed His blood in the Garden, and Adam did not know the name of the Lord. Not until His name was known could anyone be OSAS, and His name had to be known in conjunction with His shed blood to arrive at this truth. Outside of a very few chosen and His Apostles knew they would make it to the "kingdom", but also understood they would have to "endure until the end" We see before these two requirements all had to "endure until the end" - Matthew 10:22, "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." One of them did not make it.

 

All those in the OT were saved the same way we are, by looking ahead to the cross of Christ, the true forgiveness! The OT people looked ahead to the cross whereas we look back to the cross!

God showed them that He is the provider, not themselves! He also showed that blood was shed, though it wasnt through that blood they were saved but by Christ's.

 

Quote: Marcia
This is what everyone says, but nothing in the text indicates it. And in Hebrews 11.4, I think it states that Cain's offering was not accepted because he did not offer it in faith.

There are three points of reference we have for believing the animals God killed were symbolic and specific of the blood atonement nessesary for redemtion of sin.

1. Faith - You quoted rightly Heb. 11:4 but to better understand the scripture we must first remember what faith is. Faith is doing what God asks of us without seeing anything. We see this clearly in Heb chapter 11 (remember to keep things in context) So what did God ask of Cain and Abel to do? Nothing. Adam and Eve understood the significance of what happened in the Garden. (they were the smartest people on earth but not the brightest :smilewinkgrin: ) They must have known God was asking something of them in order for Cain and Abel both to bring a sacrifice.
2. Cain only brought of the fruit (but nothing specific) Abel brought the firstling (his best or foremost) and the fat thereof. This is a clear indictation the animal is dead and the fat is the most precious part. Where did he get this idea from, to bring a sacrifice to God? (sacrifice = To forfeit (one thing) for another thing considered to be of greater value) The only conclusion we can draw from this, is the Garden incident. but was there some other way they could have known or been made a little clearer on the subject?
3. Look in Luke
[Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luk 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

We see that Jesus declares something surprising - Abel was a prophet (which would actually make him the first prophet) A prophet was a preacher whos primary message was that of/for repentence and a foreshadowing of Christs future redemption. The scripture may not be as explicit as you may want but God goes all the way around the tree to show you it is indeed a tree. -so to speak-

Quote: LeBuicK
I read this verse, "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them." it appears GOD is merely covering their nakedness, I need help turning this verse into an atonement once and for all. As we know, the old testemant atonement had to be done each year and only "covered" sin.

God did cover their nakedness but what had to happen in order to cover (not remove) that which was a shame. God had to kill an innocent in order to cover their transgression (revealed via nakedness) God had to take life to in order to give life. He did not sacrifice unto Himself nor is the sacrifice FOR God (that He needs it) but for MAN (because he NEEDS it) Remember: the OT is that which is concealed (shrouded) and the NT is that which is revealed (uncloaked). The skins did not mean they were completely attoned for. It signified God would allow a temporary covering of what they could not permenantly remove. As you stated earlier, in the OT the attoned once a year (for the nation). It was the present hiding of the future promised cleancing.

 

Those of the OT were not and could not enjoy the same salvation, the joy and peace we have today. We can see David had to "sweat it out". They had to endure until the end for that gospel was by faith (Hebrews 11) they had to come, for through faith was not available to them while they lived and they were told how they were to be saved. All before Damascus Road had to be of their own works as pointed out by James. This information can be found on page 4.

 

Salvation is through the blood of Christ and faith placed in His work on the cross only. There is no other way to be saved!

Paul was an apostle, saved when Christ appeared to him on the Damascus Road but he still was saved by faith in Christ!

 

Amen to this...

When I read 2 Pet 2:4 - 22 I wonder if Adam was saved??? I see a lot here saying God offered Adam salvation which was not through Jesus. This would contridict everything christianity stands for. There is no other name! Jesus.

I believe OT believeres were saved just as we are today. They must come by the preaching of the Gospel. "1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" Christ went to hell and preached, those who believed, received. Those who did not believe will be given one last chance (in the end times) where they will either believe or burn.

Did Adam believe? I don't know.

 

We know that Christ was present from before the foundation of the world. He became incarnate and went to the cross as told in the gospels.
However, even Enoch was not for God took him.

Why is it hard to believe that God saved Adam when he clothed him with the skins? Lets not limit God but study His word and really see what He is saying to us in the OT that clearly shows the plan of salvation throughout via the saving of the Israelites from Egypt, the entering into Canaan, the sacrifices with blood being shed. See that scarlet thread that runs throughout the whole of the OT and trust God that He was showing us His plan.

Then after that trust Deut. 29:29
Have faith! Soli deo gloria!

 

What you demonstrated was theological error (dare I say error). You are using the same argument that the Church of Christ uses to prove that baptism (a work) is necessary for salvation.
Salvation is the same throughout history. Salvation is by faith. Period.
But you said:

"They were both to come of the same faith, which was by faith doing the required work, as directed."

This is works salvation. This, IMO, is heresy. It is not salvation by faith because works is involved. Rex77 used the same flawed argument. Noah was saved by building the ark (obedience.) Hogwash! Noah found grace in the sight of the Lord before he built the ark. Noah was saved before he even strarted building the ark. He was a preacher of righteousness and preached to a dying world for 120 years without fail. He built the ark because he was saved not in order to be saved (spiritually). He preached because he was saved not in order to be saved. He was saved long before that work ever began. Noah found grace in the sight of the Lord. Abraham was justified by faith, long before he did "his works."
We are saved by faith and faith alone. Works have nothing to do with it. They are a simple consequence of being saved (or made righteous).
Do you really believe in a "works-based" salvation?
DHK

 

Are you saying Adam had to work for his salvation?

No one can do that because no one can ever, ever, ever earn salvation!

As for Matt. 10.22, enduring shows that the person is saved. You don't receive salvation for "enduring" anything; otherwise, Christ did not pay the penalty for your sins on the cross. He is the one who "endured" it.

 

Allan, I think you make a very good case for this particular point of view. However, I disagree with your definition of faith. I don't think faith is defined by doing something but but by belief in God behind the action, or even just belief in God. I still think that Abel's offering was better because of faith. Many times the Israelites offered blood offerings but God rejected those offerings because they were not made in faith (i.e, they were worshiping other gods or not obeying God in certain matters).

So it has to be more than the fact that Abel offered a sacrificed animal (and we have no indication that God required this, though you do make some points on how maybe it was required). He had to offer this in faith or it meant nothing. So I think faith is the vital ingredient here.

 

If so then you must be saying none are "justified" through faith, meaning as usual that "theological accepted teaching" is in error. We are to know and understand there is one everlasting gospel, and in that gospel are the gospel of justification by faith, and the gospel of justification through faith.

We must believe what we are told to believe while we live, and today we are living and are to believe "by the grace of God through faith" and if we do not believe that then we do not believe what Jesus Christ says to us from His heavenly seat and position next to His Father in heaven.

To you today, and to me yes it is heresy to us if we try to come as they, but to them it was not heresy for it is the way God demanded they come. Show scripture if you believe otherwise, for from Adam on they all were to make blood sacrifice. That is a work and those by faith did what they were told, if they believe God. James tells you this for he says he was not saved by "faith alone".

We are saved by the grace of God, and justified through the faith of Jesus Christ, by the work that He did. You are standing on one foundation (Paul's) but believing what you say you don't. If you are saved by faith, as you say, then you need to go over to Peter's foundation, the foundation that James is justified by. This requires your fleshly blood to flow in circumcision, observe the Sabbath Day, keep over 600 ordinances of the Law, and make blood sacrifices as all before Damascus Road were required to do. This is what all the earthly Apostles of Jesus were told to do. God has not asked me to do any of these.

We are not saying "works" saves, only that the "work of the hands of man" was required in salvation for those justified by faith.

They couldn't come in His name for they didn't know by whose name is the only name under heaven that they had to be saved by. And they couldn't, come through justification faith, for His blood had not been sprinkled on the Mercy Seat.[/quote]

This is what I try to show. What you do not see is they were not and could not be saved by "faith alone". Please read James again, and he will tell you he is not justified by faith alone.

It's according to one's understanding of the gospel of justification by faith. By that faith scripture tells us Noah found "grace in the eyes of the Lord". You tell me was it God that built the ark for Noah, or was it Noah that built the ark? Was Noah "an obedient servant" believing by faith what God told him to do? My Bible says Noah built the ark.

I believe you fail to see your salvation in the Body of Christ. You got there through His faith, and the Work that He had to do, and that work included having the hands of man involved. Can you see the difference? He did it all. We would not be here if Noah had not done what God told Him to do, so yes Noah was saved by the work of his hands. We are not. We are made complete in Him, meaning all sins removed at the Cross where we died with Him. It means "water baptism" is not needed for us, or circumcision. Isn't this what we Baptist believe? If so, then it is through faith that we come.

It means Noah and the rest are saved as much as we, but differently. God in His mercy and grace saved them and us, but we have to do it on His terms. God said "Noah to survive build an ark", and by faith (Hebrews 11) Noah built the ark. Noah's human hands are needed.

God said "ituttut to survive believe on my name, your Lord Jesus Christ", and I did through faith. He did it all for me, and my hands are not even dirty.

The Old has passed away, and all things are New. "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." Colossians 2:10-14
This is the way we are saved into the Body of Christ. Not as was the Jew under covenant with God of you do this I will do that. Today it is "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new," II Corinthians 5:17.

 

Macia
Faith/belief and believe - are the same word in the Greek whick is "pistis” It means persuasion (to win by argument) Moral Conviction (the act of proving your acknowledgment of a fact or statement is true) Each indelivibly true of the other. Both act, based on fact to establish or make seen the truth.

Yes in the OT they did sacrifice and God rejected it not be of the sacrifice but they were requirements that went along with it (the sacrifices were less than required and at other time it was a pretence, thus not believing or acting according to the word of the Lord) Faith is not some in-substancial thing that were are never sure if we have or do not have. We can actually know 100% if we have it or not and when we are using it. Heb 11 makes this quite clear in its context - by faith - they did (fill in the blank) Faith was an action to a request. Faith without works is dead.

The question really is, does scripture point out a view or a truth. Corney quote: the truth is out there :laugh:

 

Macia
Faith/belief and believe - are the same word in the Greek which is "pistis” It means persuasion (to win by argument) Moral Conviction (the act of proving your acknowledgment of a fact or statement is true) Each indelivibly true of the other. Both act, based on fact to establish or make seen the truth.

Yes in the OT they did sacrifice and God rejected it sometimes but not because of the act of sacrifice but there were requirements that went along with it (the sacrifices were less than required and at other time it was a pretence, thus not believing or acting according to the word of the Lord) Faith is not some in-substancial thing that were are never sure if we have or do not have. We can actually know 100% if we have it or not and when we are using it. Heb 11 makes this quite clear in its context - by faith - they did (fill in the blank) Faith was an action to a request. Faith without works is dead.

The question really is, does scripture point out a view or a truth. Corney quote: the truth is out there :laugh:

 

oops

It would not allow me to save my edit so I had to make it another post sorry, all.

My second post of same is the corrected one.:thumbs:

 

James says the same thing.