When was Jesus Crucified??

[Chick Daniels]

Another thought on this...If I might bring Bible verses into this...In Luke 24, one of the disciples on the road to Emmaus indicated that it is the third day since the death. He said this on the first day of the week. If Christ was crucified on Wednesday, then this disciple got it wrong--he would have said it is the fifth day since the death.

Think this through...if we personalize it by saying we had a loved one pass away on a Friday. During the day Sunday you would say, "Its now the third day since we lost him." Had he passed away on Thursday, then Sunday we would say, "Its now the fourth day since we lost him."

 

[Randall S]

Hi John,

After two pages of posts, no one has addressed the descrepancies between the synoptic Gospels (Mt, Mk, Lk) and John's Gospe, which I addressed in the first post in the thread? Does anyone have any opinions about that?

I will attempt to explain some of my views on your original post and touch on another subject brought up by others while doing so. Let me say up front that I am not fully convinced which day Jesus was crucified. However, I lean toward the Friday view. First, I wouldn’t argue which of the years to use, AD27 or AD30 as long as 15 Nisan is on Friday.

First one problem I have with an absolute literal, exact, 72 hour period for the time in the grave is that Jesus rose on the 3rd day. There are many references to this, one of which is: Luke 24:46 “And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:” For me to be absolutely literal, if Christ was in the grave for a full 72 hours then a fraction of a second after that would have been the 4th day and a fraction of a second before the 72 hours would not have been a full 72 hours or 3 days and 3 nights. To have been in the grave a full 72 hours would mean He would have risen on the 4th day which contradicts the scripture above. This is just one reason I lean toward the Friday view.

Next, I personally don’t see a conflict with the synoptic gospels and the book of John as you have indicated in your original post.
John 19:14
”And it was the preparation of the Passover…”
It is my understanding that the “preparation” is a term used by the Jews to indicate the day of preparation for the Sabbath, the name of a day - Friday. The day of preparation would then be from sunset Thursday to sunset Friday. This would then mean they eat the Passover supper on 14 Nisan (our Thursday) and Christ was crucified on 15 Nisan (our Friday), as also stated by Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

You wrote:

Meanwhile John's Gospel tells it differently. He has the Last Supper on 14 Nisan, the day "Before Passover" (Jn 13:1-17:26).

John 13:1 states, “Now before the feast of the passover,…” I take the feast of the Passover in this verse as referring to the feast of the unleavened bread which was on Friday, Nisan 15. This day, the feast of the unleavened bread, was also referred to in scripture as being called the passover. Luke 22:1 “Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.” The feast of the unleavened bread was on 15 Nisan. Therefore, I believe the synoptic gospels to be in harmony with the book of John. However, you are taking this reference in John to mean the Passover meal on the 14th. I guess I just don’t see it your way at this time. However, I am still learning and may one day see it differently.

Randall

 

[rstrats]

Chick Daniels,

re: “...if we personalize it by saying we had a loved one pass away on a Friday. During the day Sunday you would say, ‘Its now the third day since we lost him.’ Had he passed away on Thursday, then Sunday we would say, ‘Its now the fourth day since we lost him.’"

That would be incorrect. If Sunday were the third day SINCE he passed away, then Saturday would be the second day SINCE he passed away, and Friday would be the first day SINCE he passed away. That makes Thursday the day that he passed away.

 

[Chick Daniels]

That would be incorrect. If Sunday were the third day SINCE he passed away, then Saturday would be the second day SINCE he passed away, and Friday would be the first day SINCE he passed away. That makes Thursday the day that he passed away.

Umm...Lets try that again. He dies Friday...that is the first day he is gone. Saturday is the second day he is gone, and Sunday is the third day he is gone.

Chick

 

[rstrats]

Chick Daniels,

re: “He dies Friday...that is the first day he is gone. Saturday is the second day he is gone, and Sunday is the third day he is gone.”

That’s a different scenario from the one detailed in Luke 24:21.

 

[mountainrun]

rstrats, the Lord's Day is referred to in Rev 1:10.
Another fact which might clarify, or not, your opening question is that the Northern Jews, which Jesus and His disciples were, considered a day from sunup to sunup, while the good ol' boys from down south considered it from sundown to sundown.
This would give two different starting times to the Day of Passover, allowing Jesus to eat the Passover with his disciples on one day and to be sacrificed at the time of the Passover on the next day.
{This from John McArthur.}

Also to Randall S...

AD 27 and AD 30 are not possible as years for the death of Jesus since we are told that John the Baptist began his ministry in the 15 year of the reign of Tiberius {Luke 3:1}, which history tells us began in August of AD 14, making the 15th year from August AD 28-29. Since Jesus began his 3.5 year ministry after his 6 month older cousin John, this puts us into AD 33, when the Passover was also on a Friday.
If you subtract 3.5 years from April AD 33, this give us about an October 29 AD start date for Jesus ministry. On or about, anyway.

MR

 

[Chick Daniels]

Chick Daniels,

re: “He dies Friday...that is the first day he is gone. Saturday is the second day he is gone, and Sunday is the third day he is gone.”

That’s a different scenario from the one detailed in Luke 24:21.

Rstrats,

Um..yes it is the same scenario...he is gone on Friday, he is gone a second day on Saturday, and he is gone the third day on Sunday.

The literal rendering of the Greek is "this is the third day it leads from which these things happened."

Friday is the day these things happened. Saturday is the second day, and Sunday--"this is the third day"

 

[Randall S]

Hi MR

Also to Randall S...

AD 27 and AD 30 are not possible as years for the death of Jesus since we are told that John the Baptist began his ministry in the 15 year of the reign of Tiberius {Luke 3:1}, which history tells us began in August of AD 14, making the 15th year from August AD 28-29. Since Jesus began his 3.5 year ministry after his 6 month older cousin John, this puts us into AD 33, when the Passover was also on a Friday.
If you subtract 3.5 years from April AD 33, this give us about an October 29 AD start date for Jesus ministry. On or about, anyway.

There are many debatable subjects when one is looking at dates in the life of Christ. Even the length of His ministry is debatable, which you have stated is 3 ½ years and I agree with you. I must retract my statement on the 27AD and 30AD dates. I was attempting to stay away from the dates issue due to time constraints. I believe the date is 30AD. Briefly, a date of 33AD for His death would put the birth of Jesus about 1BC. If I remember correctly Herod died sometime in late April of 4BC and, since Jesus was in Egypt in 4BC with Joseph and Mary, a birth of 1BC is not possible. My guess for the birth of Christ is in 5BC.

My personal view on Luke 3:1 is that the rule of Tiberius actually began in 12BC rather than 14BC. Tiberius ruled the provinces together with Augustus, both having equal authority, before Tiberius was actually made the sole ruler in 14BC. The Romans officially count the reign of Tiberius from 14BC. However, Luke was living in one of the provinces and would know that the rule of Tiberius over his province began in 12BC. Therefore, when writing his gospel Luke would probably have calculated the reign of Tiberius from 12BC. Thus the beginning of the ministry of Jesus would be placed at 26 – 27 AD, and about 3 ½ years later in 30AD we have His death. These dates also agree with a birth of 5 BC.

Randall

 

[rstrats]

Chick Daniels,

re: “The literal rendering of the Greek is ‘this is the third day it leads from which these things happened.’"

You are leaving out the word “SINCE” ( Greek, apo).

 

[Chick Daniels]

You are leaving out the word “SINCE” ( Greek, apo).

You better go back and check your Greek Lexicon...the preposition apo means FROM. apo + hou = "from which". Sunday is the third day from which the crucifixion happened. Saturday was the second day from which it happened. Friday was the first day, the day of the event.

 

[rstrats]

muntainrun,

re: “...the Lord's Day is referred to in Rev 1:10.”

I’m afraid that I don’t see your point.


re: “Another fact which might clarify, or not, your opening question is that the Northern Jews, which Jesus and His disciples were, considered a day from sunup to sunup,”

My first question was in regard to the statement: “The phrase ‘3 days and 3 nights’ is a metaphor for ‘a couple of days’, used in Judaism... “ My question was: “I would really be interested in seeing the documentation that supports that statement. I wonder if you might identify your source.” Again, I don’t see your point .

 

[rstrats]

Chick Daniels,

re: “You better go back and check your Greek Lexicon.”

OK - I have, and “SINCE” is one of the words listed for apo. Actually, it’s thrust is pretty much the same as the word “FROM”. If Sunday was the third day FROM the day it happened, then Saturday was the second day FROM the day it happened and Friday was the first day FROM the day it happened. That makes Thursday the day that it happened.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

I'm back.

Many Christians have two different views - 'Lord's day' of Rev. 1:10. Many saying, it is Day of the Lord - rapture during Tribulation. Many saying, it is Sunday.

I repect them both on two different views of 'Lord's day' of Rev. 1:10. However, I disagree with both views.

Common times, I hear often, Christians saying, we are going to the church on the Lord's day(Sunday). I repect them. I never criticize them for saying it. I just leave them alone. I am glad that they are going to the church on Sunday for what? To worshipping the Lord! I am sure the Lord blessing them.

To mu understanding of Rev. 1:10 - 'Lord's day' means, in THAT day the Lord came to John, when he was on Patmos Island in year around 95 A.D. by through revelation. You have to look up Rev. 1:9 first. John tells us, he was our brother and companion in tribulation. Because he was thrown on Patmos Island. The reason why he was thrown there, I believe people in Asia(Turkey) and Greece were fed up with John for preach the gospel. So, they want to rid him away. That why John was put away to Patmos Isalnd, where no people there. He was so lonely on Patmos Isalnd. So, Rev. 1:10 tells us, in THAT DAY, the Lord came to John, when John was in the Spirit when he received revelation from Jesus Christ.

Revelation means supernatural communication between God and man.

Good example in Galatians 1:12 tells us, that Paul said, he did not receieved word from any man, or from his own idea. He received the word through REVELATION from Jesus Christ. That's how, Paul wrote 13 epistles.

2 Peter 1:21 tells us, "For the prophecy came NOT in old time BY the will(desire or want) of man: BUT holy men of God spake as they were MOVED by the Holy Ghost."

2 Peter 1:21 clearly telling us, apostles written God's Word, as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, not by their own idea or invent the doctrines. They were moved to penned down God's Word through the revelation by the Holy Spirit.

Now back to Rev. 1:9-10. John tells us, he have his own experince as he was filled with the Spirit while he received the message from Jesus Christ through the revealtion on THAT DAY(in year around 95 A.D.) WHEN the Lord came to him through revelation while he was on Patmos Island.

Understand?

John does not saying, 'Lord's day' is Sunday. That is Christians' own intepreting, not what John was talking about.

I hope that you understand what my point is talking about.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Chick Daniels]

OK - I have, and “SINCE” is one of the words listed for apo. Actually, it’s thrust is pretty much the same as the word “FROM”. If Sunday was the third day FROM the day it happened, then Saturday was the second day FROM the day it happened and Friday was the first day FROM the day it happened. That makes Thursday the day that it happened.

Sorry, but whether you take 'from which' or 'since which', the way this would most likely have been understood in the first century, is Sunday the third day from which it happened, Saturday is the second day, and Friday is the first day, the day of the event.

 

[rstrats]

Chick Daniels,

re: ...“the way this would most likely have been understood in the first century, is Sunday the third day from which it happened, Saturday is the second day, and Friday is the first day, the day of the event.”

So you’re saying that in the first century, people could say that a particular day was the third day from which something happened, but that they couldn’t say that a particular day was the first day from which something happened. I would be interested in seeing the documentation that you used in making that assertion.