When Will Obama's Wave Crash?

[Dr Mike Kear]

I know...and it's sickening. I still have no idea who I'm going to vote for. I know it will NOT be Obama or Clinton, that's for sure!

Welcome to the BB, btw

I've actually been contemplating not voting this November. And that bugs me. I've voted in every presidential election since Reagan. (That kinda gives away my age :smilewinkgrin

Thanks for the welcome!

 

[Palatka51]

You're going to have to sit this election out, then! McCain is pro-abortion and the democratic candidates are both pro-abortion as well. Unless we get a third party candidate who is actually conservative rather than a pro-death neo-con, we will be stuck with only pro-abortion choices. :BangHead:

The thing you have to consider is which candidate is going to select justices that will interpret law and not legislate from the bench. It is true that McCain's record is questionable but I am not yet sold on the fact that he is completely pro-abortion. I think that he is for limited abortions. Not that I am settling on him for that, its just that I could, with good conscience, cast a vote for him if he sticks with the assignment of justices that will erode Roe v Wade into oblivion.
This bad law has to go. And there is evidence that the judges placed on the bench these past few years have upheld many Right to Life issues. They've upheld the partial birth abortion ban. They've upheld Mr Bush's band on embryonic stem cell research. Mr Bush's administration tried to defend Teri Schiavo.
With time and patience and prayer we will see victory. God does know what He is doing and no matter who is our President, God is still in control. :godisgood:

 

[Dr Mike Kear]

The thing you have to consider is which candidate is going to select justices that will interpret law and not legislate from the bench. It is true that McCain's record is questionable but I am not yet sold on the fact that he is completely pro-abortion. I think that he is for limited abortions. Not that I am settling on him for that, its just that I could, with good conscience, cast a vote for him if he sticks with the assignment of justices that will erode Roe v Wade into oblivion.
This bad law has to go. And there is evidence that the judges placed on the bench these past few years have upheld many Right to Life issues. They've upheld the partial birth abortion ban. They've upheld Mr Bush's band on embryonic stem cell research. Mr Bush's administration tried to defend Teri Schiavo.
With time and patience and prayer we will see victory. God does know what He is doing and no matter who is our President, God is still in control. :godisgood:

I agree - especially with the fact that God is in control!!!

On whether McCain will be any different then either of the democrats on helping overturn Roe v. Wade, I simply have to take his own word on it. McCain has stated, “[C]ertainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to undergo illegal and dangerous operations.”

To me it seems that we are faced with choosing between pro-abortion (the dems) and pro-abortion plus unending war (McCain). And of course the third choice - the one I'm contemplating - which is refusing to choose at all from the choices that have been offered to us. Since I'm not comfortable being complicit with the evil promoted by either party I may have to choose not voting at all. *sigh*

 

[Sopranette]

Then vote third party. We DO have more choices than these three. Even if you have to write your choice in, it is a valid vote, and you have made your opinions known on what the direction this country should be going in. I will not be voting for any of these three. It's only a wasted vote if you don't vote at all.

love,

Sopranette

 

[Aaron]

no way. Absolutely wrong.

I support abortion in no way, and refuse to be blamed for something that I cannot help.

Taxes are not an option.

I have done my best to put people in office that are pro-life.

Sorry...abortion is the scourge of our generation, but I can't take responsiblity, when it's not mine to take.

I don't believe you have done your best.

Would you do more if mothers were marching their four or five-year-olds to clinics to be put to sleep at the tune of 1600 a day? I believe you would. I believe everyone would.

RD is right. We're all responsible. You too.

 

[rbell]

I don't believe you have done your best.

Would you do more if mothers were marching their four or five-year-olds to clinics to be put to sleep at the tune of 1600 a day? I believe you would. I believe everyone would.

RD is right. We're all responsible. You too.

Nope.

I've served on the board of directors for a home for unwed mothers.

I give time every year to assist Sav-a-Life.

I vote pro life.

I've personally talked teens at my church OUT OF abortions.

Sorry....you don't know me well enough to say I haven't done enough.

And I've done what I could...and will continue to do so.

I refuse to bear guilt for a sin I haven't committed.

 

[Aaron]

Is that what you would do if a woman were about to take an ax to her 5-year-old? Simply try to talk her out of it, or would you use a more forceful method? (The legality of a situation is irrelevant.)

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Is that what you would do if a woman were about to take an ax to her 5-year-old? Simply try to talk her out of it, or would you use a more forceful method? (The legality of a situation is irrelevant.)

The legality IS relevant. And you have no right to use force to stop another person from committing a lawful act.

 

[rbell]

Is that what you would do if a woman were about to take an ax to her 5-year-old? Simply try to talk her out of it, or would you use a more forceful method? (The legality of a situation is irrelevant.)

Non-sequitur. But hey...it seems to be your desire that I feel guilty. So you go ahead and feel guilty for me. My conscience is clear. I have done what I can (and will continue to do so).

Where is my shortcoming? Am I guilty because I haven't chained myself to the clinic? Am I guilty because I haven't forcibly, physically restrained a mother at a clinic? Exactly where does my guilt lie, and how can you determine that?



Priesthood of the believer strikes again. I'm doing what God has called me to do to prevent the scourge of abortions. You do what God has called you to do.

 

[Aaron]

The legality IS relevant. And you have no right to use force to stop another person from committing a lawful act.

I didn't think it possible, but in 25 words or less MP has justified the atrocities of Nazi-ism and Communism. Will wonders never cease?

 

[Aaron]

Non-sequitur.

Not at all. Here's the point . . .

You can only call this a non sequitur if you see the five-year-old as your neighbor—that is, as a person—but not the unborn child. You approach abortion as if it were a vice like prostitution, but not as an act of unspeakable violence against an innocent baby.

If 1600 born children a day were being marched to gas chambers, and politics had failed for 30 years to abate the slaughter, I'm almost certain that if you yourself didn't take up arms to save the children, you would put all of your energy and resources behind those that did.

RD is right, we all have blood on our hands. Especially that of Terri Schiavo's.

 

[rbell]

Not at all. Here's the point . . .

You can only call this a non sequitur if you see the five-year-old as your neighbor—that is, as a person—but not the unborn child. You approach abortion as if it were a vice like prostitution, but not as an act of unspeakable violence against an innocent baby.

If 1600 born children a day were being marched to gas chambers, and politics had failed for 30 years to abate the slaughter, I'm almost certain that if you yourself didn't take up arms to save the children, you would put all of your energy and resources behind those that did.

RD is right, we all have blood on our hands. Especially that of Terri Schiavo's.

So, because we're not killing abortionists we're guilty of not doing enough????

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you.

And I still hold to my point...I have no guilt in this area. Other issues of life...of course. This one...no.

 

[tinytim]

Aaron, what can we do so that we will not be guilty?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I didn't think it possible, but in 25 words or less MP has justified the atrocities of Nazi-ism and Communism. Will wonders never cease?

What a leap of logic that is. Where did you get that "Jump to Conclusions Mat"?

Looks to me like you advocate killing doctors and patients to protect life. I hope I am misreading you.

 

[Aaron]

How far would you go to save the life of a five-year-old that you knew was in imminent and immediate danger for his life? Would you risk your life to save him from death at the hands of a violent assailant?

What is the difference between that child, and one who is unborn? If you would respond differently, then you don't see the unborn child truly as a child. That's enough to make one guilty.

I say this only to put the urgency of the situation in the proper perspective. If you knew that 1600 born children were being slaughtered simply because their mothers wished it, you would be "up in arms," figuratively speaking. (Puh-leeze spare me the accusations of violent intent.)

Non-violently, we can do so much more. Millions of us should be camped around Washington and the abortion clinics until the killing stops. That's one thing, but the list of sacrifices we should be making is endless.

In the interest of brevity, I'll leave it there.

Now, if you would use only words to prevent a mother from murdering her born child if you knew that child was in imminent danger for his life, perhaps you can truly claim that you've done all you can, but then your humanity would have to come into question.

 

[rbell]

How far would you go to save the life of a five-year-old that you knew was in imminent and immediate danger for his life? Would you risk your life to save him from death at the hands of a violent assailant?

What is the difference between that child, and one who is unborn? If you would respond differently, then you don't see the unborn child truly as a child. That's enough to make one guilty.

I say this only to put the urgency of the situation in the proper perspective. If you knew that 1600 born children were being slaughtered simply because their mothers wished it, you would be "up in arms," figuratively speaking. (Puh-leeze spare me the accusations of violent intent.)

Non-violently, we can do so much more. Millions of us should be camped around Washington and the abortion clinics until the killing stops. That's one thing, but the list of sacrifices we should be making is endless.

In the interest of brevity, I'll leave it there.

Now, if you would use only words to prevent a mother from murdering her born child if you knew that child was in imminent danger for his life, perhaps you can truly claim that you've done all you can, but then your humanity would have to come into question.

Some thoughts:

When everyone misunderstands you in the same manner....perhaps it is you that did not make your point clear. You really did lead as if you advocated violence in this area. Glad we misunderstood.

As far as having guilt for a sin I haven't committed...Romans 8:1 says, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." I hearken back to the fact that my conscience is clear in this area. I have done what I could. Sorry that you doubt that. If you experience guilt, that is between you and God. There's plenty of conviction that comes to my life...but not at this point in time in this partuclar area. Like I said...believe it or not.

I must admit...it does bother me a bit that you find it so important to tell me that I am guilty. It would seem to me that that is God's place to determine, not yours. Oh well.

 

[tinytim]

How far would you go to save the life of a five-year-old that you knew was in imminent and immediate danger for his life? Would you risk your life to save him from death at the hands of a violent assailant?

What is the difference between that child, and one who is unborn? If you would respond differently, then you don't see the unborn child truly as a child. That's enough to make one guilty.

I say this only to put the urgency of the situation in the proper perspective. If you knew that 1600 born children were being slaughtered simply because their mothers wished it, you would be "up in arms," figuratively speaking. (Puh-leeze spare me the accusations of violent intent.)

Non-violently, we can do so much more. Millions of us should be camped around Washington and the abortion clinics until the killing stops. That's one thing, but the list of sacrifices we should be making is endless.

In the interest of brevity, I'll leave it there.

Now, if you would use only words to prevent a mother from murdering her born child if you knew that child was in imminent danger for his life, perhaps you can truly claim that you've done all you can, but then your humanity would have to come into question.

Aaron, do you camp out at abortion clinics waiting to rescue the unborn?
If not, you are guilty of what you are preaching.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron, do you camp out at abortion clinics waiting to rescue the unborn?
If not, you are guilty of what you are preaching.

That's true, though you don't know my activities and my plans, I am not asserting my innocence on this board.

My goal was to point out the double-mindedness in most Christians concerning abortion. rbell's post gave me the perfect opportunity to do so.

 

[Aaron]

When everyone misunderstands you in the same manner....perhaps it is you that did not make your point clear. You really did lead as if you advocated violence in this area. Glad we misunderstood.

Everyone? (Note to self: rbell and MP represent "everyone.")

I'll say this, our activities should be so disruptive that doctors and their government henchmen should be taking shots at us.

 

[JerryL]

Everyone? (Note to self: rbell and MP represent "everyone.")

I'll say this, our activities should be so disruptive that doctors and their government henchmen should be taking shots at us.

How do you contribute to this?