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When you see Jesus face to face, will you stop believing in Him?

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Alright, if we do see him, then does that destroy any blessedness we have for believing and not seeing? Maybe that's what the OP meant?

Good point. When we see Jesus will we cease to be blessed since we are blessed for not seeing Him and yet believing?

I would like to see some scripture that states faith in Jesus ends at seeing Him in Heaven. So far we have opinions based on what I see as some ignorance as to what the biblical definition of pisteuo or pistis is.
 

mark1

New Member
steaver said:
Good point. When we see Jesus will we cease to be blessed since we are blessed for not seeing Him and yet believing?

I would like to see some scripture that states faith in Jesus ends at seeing Him in Heaven. So far we have opinions based on what I see as some ignorance as to what the biblical definition of pisteuo or pistis is.

I can just see us all saying in Heaven, I believe that we are here.

1Cr 13:12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

You wanted scripture:
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
steaver said:
Good point. When we see Jesus will we cease to be blessed since we are blessed for not seeing Him and yet believing?

I would like to see some scripture that states faith in Jesus ends at seeing Him in Heaven. So far we have opinions based on what I see as some ignorance as to what the biblical definition of pisteuo or pistis is.
In 1Cor.13, Paul writes about spiritual gifts and does a comparison.
He writes about those gifts which are temporary (prophecy, tongues, [revelatory] knowledge), those gifts which are semi-permanent (hope and faith) and that gift which is permanent (love), for it surpasses all.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
--Here the temporary gifts--the sign gifts which ceased at the end of the first century--are compared to love. Love never fails. It is the greatest of all the gifts. It alone will endure forever, even throughout eternity. Here it states that love never fails.

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
--Here the semi-permanent gifts are compared to love--that gift which will never end. Faith and hope are "semi-permanent," in that they will only last until Christ comes. When Christ comes they will no longer be needed. Thus, in comparison, Paul states the greatest of these is love. Why is it the greatest? It will go into eternity, lasting forever and ever, but hope and faith will end at the coming of Christ.

How much difference is there between hope and faith?
When the song writer wrote:

My hope is in the Lord, who gave himself for me;
And paid the price for all my sin on Calvary.

How much difference in meaning would there be if one substitutes the word "faith" for hope?

Here is what the Bible says about "hope."

Romans 8:24-25 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
--These same statements could be said about faith.
We are saved by faith, and often we say by faith alone.
But faith that is seen is not faith. We walk by faith and not by sight.
What a man seeth, why does he put his faith in that promise? (It is already realized.)
But if we have faith for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
--Our hope is the appearing of Jesus Christ.
After that event happens neither hope or faith will be necessary.
 

mark1

New Member
DHK said:
In 1Cor.13, Paul writes about spiritual gifts and does a comparison.
He writes about those gifts which are temporary (prophecy, tongues, [revelatory] knowledge), those gifts which are semi-permanent (hope and faith) and that gift which is permanent (love), for it surpasses all.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
--Here the temporary gifts--the sign gifts which ceased at the end of the first century--are compared to love. Love never fails. It is the greatest of all the gifts. It alone will endure forever, even throughout eternity. Here it states that love never fails.

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
--Here the semi-permanent gifts are compared to love--that gift which will never end. Faith and hope are "semi-permanent," in that they will only last until Christ comes. When Christ comes they will no longer be needed. Thus, in comparison, Paul states the greatest of these is love. Why is it the greatest? It will go into eternity, lasting forever and ever, but hope and faith will end at the coming of Christ.

How much difference is there between hope and faith?
When the song writer wrote:

My hope is in the Lord, who gave himself for me;
And paid the price for all my sin on Calvary.

How much difference in meaning would there be if one substitutes the word "faith" for hope?

Here is what the Bible says about "hope."

Romans 8:24-25 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
--These same statements could be said about faith.
We are saved by faith, and often we say by faith alone.
But faith that is seen is not faith. We walk by faith and not by sight.
What a man seeth, why does he put his faith in that promise? (It is already realized.)
But if we have faith for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
--Our hope is the appearing of Jesus Christ.
After that event happens neither hope or faith will be necessary.
You want scripture?

1Pe 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 1:8
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.


2Cr 5:7

(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2Cr 5:8

We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


I know its not scripture but scripture supports it. Do you ever sing Beulah Land, in your church?


**BEULAH LAND**
I'm kind of homesick for a country,
To which I've never been before;
No sad goodbyes will there be spoken,
And time won't matter, anymore.

Chorus:
Beulah Land, I'm longing for you,
And some day on thee I'll stand;
There my home will be eternal,
Beulah Land, sweet Beulah Land.

I'm looking out across the river,
To where my faith's going to end in sight,
There's just a few more days to labor,
Then I will take my Heavenly flight.

Chorus:

My loved ones now are waiting for me,
I can see their robes of white;
The sweetest smiles upon their faces,
That's where the Savior is the light.

I wonder when I'll take my journey,
I now can see the end in sight;
It lies across the rolling Jordan,
On yonder's bank I see the light.


I'm kind of homesick for a country,
To which I've never been before;
No sad goodbyes will there be spoken,
And time won't matter, anymore.

Chorus:

Beulah Land, I'm longing for you,
And some day on thee I'll stand;
There my home will be eternal,
Beulah Land, sweet Beulah Land.

I'm looking out across the river,
To where my faith's going to end in sight,
There's just a few more days to labor,
Then I will take my Heavenly flight.

Chorus:

My loved ones now are waiting for me,
I can see their robes of white;
The sweetest smiles upon their faces,
That's where the Savior is the light.

I wonder when I'll take my journey,
I now can see the end in sight;
It lies across the rolling Jordan,
On yonder's bank I see the light.
 
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webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
steaver said:
Let me ask you a question. Do you know God is your Father? If "yes", then why do you still say you believe God is your Father?

Why did Jesus say to Thomas....

Jhn 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.
I believe God is my Father, but I haven't seen Him. Some day I will, and I won't have to believe He is anymore, I will know because I will be witnessing it firsthand. My faith will be fulfilled.

Jesus was telling Thomas he was blessed because he believed Jesus rose from the dead AFTER he saw him, that he then realized He was the Christ. I don't really see how that verse pertains to this discussion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
steaver said:
Good point. When we see Jesus will we cease to be blessed since we are blessed for not seeing Him and yet believing?

I would like to see some scripture that states faith in Jesus ends at seeing Him in Heaven. So far we have opinions based on what I see as some ignorance as to what the biblical definition of pisteuo or pistis is.
Those who witnessed Christ firsthand, and those who didn't are both blessed if they believe Jesus to be who He says He is. I guess I'm not understanding your point. Faith will end once we see Him because we will be LIKE Him, and He has no need for faith. We will KNOW for a fact He is the Christ because we will be in Heaven with Him. We won't have to hope He is...essentially what faith is
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We will KNOW for a fact He is the Christ because we will be in Heaven with Him. We won't have to hope He is...essentially what faith is

You are not sure right now Jesus is the Christ?
 

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
steaver said:
You are not sure right now Jesus is the Christ?
I am, that's what faith is...but when it becomes reality, there is no more "hoping" for something not seen, hence no more faith.
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I believe God is my Father, but I haven't seen Him. Some day I will, and I won't have to believe He is anymore, I will know because I will be witnessing it firsthand. My faith will be fulfilled.

When you see your Father in heaven you won't believe He is your Father anymore?
 

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
steaver said:
Then you know now for a fact. What do you need faith for?
My spirit bears witness with His Spirit...this is how I know, though I haven't seen.
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
My spirit bears witness with His Spirit...this is how I know, though I haven't seen.

Then we both know and have faith. There is no "hope so" but rather a "know so", correct?
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Would it not be true that our faith in Jesus Christ is defined in scripture as knowing Jesus Christ without seeing Jesus Christ? Thus Christian faith is not void of knowing that which is true, the only faith principle then for the Christian is the not seeing with the eyes the object of your faith.
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The OP is a simple question. Has anyone attempted to just answer it yes or no and embrace the consequences of their answer?

When you see Jesus face to face, will you stop believing in Him?

My answer is no. In fact, I will believe in Him even more. In fact, I will believe in Him with a perfect faith!!

:jesus:
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
steaver said:
The OP is a simple question. Has anyone attempted to just answer it yes or no and embrace the consequences of their answer?

When you see Jesus face to face, will you stop believing in Him?

My answer is no. In fact, I will believe in Him even more. In fact, I will believe in Him with a perfect faith!!

:jesus:
Faith and belief are not the same, and thus the OP somewhat deceptive.
We will always be learning from Jesus, and thus always be "believing" that which we learn.
But our "faith" will be realized. It will have come to fruition. It will be needed no more. It is not even logical to say that we have faith in heaven.

Will you stand before Christ and say: "I hope that Christ comes." He is my hope. It is not logical. You will be looking at your hope.

When he comes we shall see him.
We shall be like him for we shall see him as he is.
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Faith and belief are not the same, and thus the OP somewhat deceptive.
We will always be learning from Jesus, and thus always be "believing" that which we learn.
But our "faith" will be realized. It will have come to fruition. It will be needed no more. It is not even logical to say that we have faith in heaven.

Will you stand before Christ and say: "I hope that Christ comes." He is my hope. It is not logical. You will be looking at your hope.

When he comes we shall see him.
We shall be like him for we shall see him as he is.

"pisteuo" is defined "to have faith" and is where the word translated "believe" comes from.

Hopes will be fulfilled. You can hope for something with the implication that it might not happen (no faith, hope so) or you can hope for something you know is going to happen. Christian hope is hoping in things to come to past that you know will happen, you just remain in a state of anticipation until it does.

I have faith and hope in Jesus Christ that He will ressurrect my dead body and give me a new glorified one. Once I get it I will no longer hope I get it.

Once I see Jesus face to face in heaven that particular hope will have been fulfilled, but I will forever believe in Him as eternity forever continues to hold unlearned adventures.

But our "faith" will be realized. It will have come to fruition. It will be needed no more.

Let me ask you something. Is it "our" faith that sustains us? You believe in OSAS correct? For OSAS to be true then the faith we have cannot fail. I know I fail at many things, yet the faith I have never does. So is it really "my" faith that saves me or keeps me saved? Or has God placed a faith within me that cannot fail?
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Faith and belief are not the same, and thus the OP somewhat deceptive.
We will always be learning from Jesus, and thus always be "believing" that which we learn.
But our "faith" will be realized. It will have come to fruition. It will be needed no more. It is not even logical to say that we have faith in heaven.

Will you stand before Christ and say: "I hope that Christ comes." He is my hope. It is not logical. You will be looking at your hope.

When he comes we shall see him.
We shall be like him for we shall see him as he is.
"pisteuo" is defined "to have faith" and is where the word translated "believe" comes from.[/quote]
pisteuo is not defined as "to have faith" and is not once translated that way, but rather in 239 time it is translated simply as "believe". It is used a total of 248 times, and the other times it is used in the sense of "commit." Not once is it translated "faith," or "to have faith," or any similar way.

On the other hand it is another word, related, but still another word, "pistis" that is translated "faith." It also is translated "faith" 239 times out of its 244 usages. A couple of times it is translated as assurance or fidelity. The words are different.
Hopes will be fulfilled. You can hope for something with the implication that it might not happen (no faith, hope so) or you can hope for something you know is going to happen. Christian hope is hoping in things to come to past that you know will happen, you just remain in a state of anticipation until it does.
That is not true. We often hope for things that will not necessarily happen. This is what James rebukes.

James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
I can pray and hope for a million dollars (as some do when they buy a lotto ticket), but if that is not God's will that hope will not be realized.

On the other hand what does John say on the matter?
1 John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
--Do I know the will of God?
If I ask according to the will of God, I will receive the petitions that I ask of him. There is faith. Faith is confidence.
I have faith and hope in Jesus Christ that He will ressurrect my dead body and give me a new glorified one. Once I get it I will no longer hope I get it.
You will no longer have faith either. That is why both faith and hope will be finished at the coming of Christ. Why would you have faith in the resurrection, after the resurrection of your body takes place?
Once I see Jesus face to face in heaven that particular hope will have been fulfilled, but I will forever believe in Him as eternity forever continues to hold unlearned adventures.
Faith is always in the unseen.
We walk by faith and not by sight.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Hebrews 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

But our "faith" will be realized. It will have come to fruition. It will be needed no more.
Let me ask you something. Is it "our" faith that sustains us? You believe in OSAS correct? For OSAS to be true then the faith we have cannot fail. I know I fail at many things, yet the faith I have never does. So is it really "my" faith that saves me or keeps me saved? Or has God placed a faith within me that cannot fail?
No, it is Christ that saves. Faith often fails. Discouragement sets in. Everyone gets discouraged at sometime or another. At the time that we are unfaithful; Christ remains faithful. It is Christ that saves; Christ that keeps; and Christ that will carry us through until that day comes.

"For I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
pisteuo is not defined as "to have faith"

Then maybe I am not understanding how to use my Strong's concordance. It states;

4100 "pisteuo" from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing)

Am I reading this wrong? Please help me there if i am.

No, it is Christ that saves. Faith often fails. Discouragement sets in. Everyone gets discouraged at sometime or another. At the time that we are unfaithful; Christ remains faithful. It is Christ that saves; Christ that keeps; and Christ that will carry us through until that day comes.

How do you understand Ehpesians 2:8 when it states; "For by grace are ye saved through faith;" ?

What is the through faith part there for?
 
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