Where are you in the spectrum?

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
Your remarks are not worth the time of day.

Translation: I disagree but can't show that I am intolerant.

 

[rsr]

This is not directed at anyone here, but being old and spineless is not the same as having wisdom.

Are you adding lying to your virtues? Of course we know who you are talking about. Wipe the snot from your nose before you talk about a true man of God, someone whose sandals you are not worthy to fasten.

[ May 08, 2003, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: rsr ]

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by rsr:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />This is not directed at anyone here, but being old and spineless is not the same as having wisdom.

Are you adding lying to your virtues? Of course we know who you are talking about. Whipe the snot from your nose before you talk about a true man of God, someone whose sandals you are not worthy to fasten. </font>[/QUOTE]RSR,

Where is the kindness and the grace in your post. Are you that intolerant? Or do you only show kindness to those who you agree with and to those who show it to you? Matthew 5:43-47? And, were you questioning PTW's salvation with your last statement? I think I read somewhere that is against the rules.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[rsr]

Well, I don't think I have ever questioned someone's salvation — in public, at least. So, you may feel free to take that accusation back.

Read the posts, and the situation is clear. No, I am not showing grace, I am afraid. How someone can accuse another person of having no backbone and not wish incoming missiles, I don't know. And get rid of the stupid waving smiley. It doesn't suit your posts.

 

[Pete Richert]

I think we all need to calm down a bit. This seems to me a big misunderstanding. Daniel David contends stronly for his beliefs and stands quite in line with historic orthodoxy. In terms of his passion for pursuing correct theology and hard work in study, there are few that match him. In contrast to Jim's statement, (and I have always respected Jim's comments and beliefs) I think it would be quite a score to land a preacher with such conviction for salvation history instead of the more shallow spiritualized teaching I have often sat under. That said, DD comes across harsh sometimes and I think with certain audiences he should present with a more gentleness. But it is not as if he adheres to some of the extremes that exist on this board and thinks everyone else is going to hell who doesn't follow them. Indeed, he is often speaking out agaist them. He simply stands for the truths of scripture, Jesus Diety, Salvation by grace alone through faith alone (in all dispensations!), the inerrancy of the Bible, etc.

 

[rsr]

This is not, unfortunately, a misunderstanding. Daniel has been edited because he suggested that "moderates" — whatever that means — are not saved.

I will be happy to be edited if my comments are over the line. I think they are not.

His comments also included snide remarks about Canadians, a completely ad hominem attack.

I am willing to be kicked off the board for my remarks. I stand in the historic Baptist tradition and do not flinch from it.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Point of information. Daniel is NOT a Moderator on the BaptistBoard. His positions are just that, his, and have just as much a place here as anyone. Have received three "alerts" to this thread this evening.

Find it a little incongruous that he is attacked as "young and impetuous" for saying another member is "old and compromising". Let's all try to attack IDEAS and not people.

Especially not OLD PEOPLE. Youth and enthusiam are no competition for age and experience. Remember, we might not soar like eagles anymore, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

 

[jonmagee]

Originally posted by Daniel David:

Rebuke them sharply (still relevant for today)

all this rebuking, especially in its manner, ignores some thing vital. Lets get back to the word. Lets look to John 1 which says we beheld His glory, the glory of the Father, full of grace and truth.

We may say as strong as we like that we are called to boldly declare the truth unwatered down, but if the grace is missing it will always be arrogant to declare that the glory of the Lord is in our actions/words. Both grace and truth must be there, or we fail to glorify the Father as he intended us to.

Humanly speaking that is some times difficult, I know, but this is a truth that we must firmly grasp before we consider ourselves worthy to present any other truth

yours, Jon.

 

[Ben W]

I am Evangelical, I consider myself to be Fundamentalist because I believe that the Bible is Gods word. I also believe in Spiritual Gifts and I belong to the Seventh Day Baptist Church. Bit of a mixed bag really.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by rsr:
Well, I don't think I have ever questioned someone's salvation — in public, at least. So, you may feel free to take that accusation back.

Read the posts, and the situation is clear. No, I am not showing grace, I am afraid. How someone can accuse another person of having no backbone and not wish incoming missiles, I don't know. And get rid of the stupid waving smiley. It doesn't suit your posts.

I like the wavey smiley. I think I'll keep it. You could stand to lose a little bit of anger though. IMO, you should not get so worked up over one man's opinion. Life is too short, God is still in control, and your blood pressure could go through the roof.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Matt Black]

I put 'evangelical' as this most closely sums up where I'm at. NB this is the UK definition of 'evangelical' as set out via the UK Evangelical Alliance's home page , not the US definition which I understand is much closer to 'fundamentalist'. On some issues, I'm a bit of a theological moderate, but not really a liberal cos I don't agree with gay sexual relationships etc; but if you look at my post on the "What is your meaning of fundamentalist?" thread on the Fundamental Baptist Forum, you will see that I apparently almost qualify as a fundamentalist!

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[Daniel David]

My comments about being old and compromising were NOT directed at Jim. It has been said on more than one occasion and by more than one older person that the younger people (many whom I disagree with) are just that, young. They lack maturity, wisdom, grace, understanding, etc.

To flatly say that those things are because of youth is ignorance. That is just ad hominem.

On the other hand, it is implied that since it is the young ones that lack all those things, that the older folk have them.

This is like ad hominem in reverse. By playing of an ad hominem, it seeks to prove the truthfulness of the opposite.

My comments were directed at the "moderate" position.

 

[Molly]

I consider us to be conservative fundamental...that is we see God's Word and everything in it as Truth and try to live it out in our lives.We believe in the fundamentals of doctrines such as God,man,sin,virgin birth,and all the other doctrines that the Bible mentions......evrything.

I'm not questioning anyone's salvation....but if someone does not hold to God's Word and stand on Truth,they may be saved,but are sending and teaching theology with holes in it. That can be detrimental to other's understanding of scripture and the gospel. (I don't mean those are 2 different things,BTW).

So,all in all,I think teachers,pastors need to see if they are teaching correctly the whole counsel of God,they are commanded to in scripture.

 

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Ruth, a moderate is just another name for a person who either lacks the ability to spine to stand for a position enough to say that those who are of the opposing side are wrong.

Did I not say in my post that you were wrong? You are equating manmade doctrines with God's Word to us, which came in both the Bible and Jesus. I have absolute faith in both of these to provide for my salvation and my guide for living. I do NOT believe that one man's interpretation of these things is infallible, since the Bible warns us specifically about falling into that trap.

I have no doubt but that you are sincere in your beliefs, but please remember that you are not God's sole appointed representative as the arbiter of His truth. I say this not in anger, but in the hope that you will pray about what you have said and come to the realization that contending for the faith does not mean demeaning other Christians who do not accept without question the same manmade doctrines you subscribe to.

This will be my last word on this subject, as I do not want to contribute further to an already inflammatory thread.

Ruth

 

[Sherrie]

I attend and am a member of the SBC. But I am probably a little of all of them. I never think of those words while reading and studying my Bible, while sitting in Church, or while praying and walking with God.

Here are some things that never came to mind while sitting in Church:

I wonder if they are Liberals or Conservatives.

I wonder which side I should sit on; the Liberal side, or the conservative side.

Oh yeah, judging from her clothes; she's liberal.

Boy he sings that just like a Conservative!

Boy that Preachers Fundy all the way, moderately speaking of course!


Things I never say or think while praying, and walking with God:

Lord give me all the blessing that you have for me, because I am Conservative.

Lord are you Conservative or Liberal? Fundamentally speaking of course.

And Forgive all those who are not Conservative Lord.

Lord, is it possible to be a Fundamental, and Liberal at the same time? If so, would that make it Libmental?


Sherrie

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Ruth:
You are equating manmade doctrines with God's Word to us, which came in both the Bible and Jesus.

Typically Ruth, in theological terms, the "conservative/moderate/liberal" distinction does not really apply to interpretation but to long held and recognized orthodox positions on the teaching of Scripture. An old book by J. Gresham Machen entitled "Christianity and Liberalism" will give some insight to this.

There is room within each "camp" to have difference of opinion. But for instance, the liberals differ with the conservative on whether or not Scripture is inspired. The biblical teaching is a long held, widely recognized position that the liberals have rejected. Most of them admit that they are rejecting the historical position. They simply see it differently.

Let's be careful not to confuse terms in this debate. It can get very confusing as it is sometimes. Moderates and liberals are much more likely to simply explain away clear biblical teaching and blame the other side's "interpretation." I find a red flag goes up whenever I hear "interpretation" thrown out. It has a legitimate use but very often it is an attempt to undermine the teaching of Scritpure.

Case in point, the liberal position on homosexuality is one that they claim our "interpretation" is wrong. Yet they ignore the explicit statements of Scripture and explain them away. That is faulty no matter who does it.

 

[Matt Black]

Excellent, Sherrie!

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[jonmagee]

Originally posted by Sherrie:
I attend and am a member of the SBC. But I am probably a little of all of them. I never think of those words while reading and studying my Bible, while sitting in Church, or while praying and walking with God.

Here are some things that never came to mind while sitting in Church:

I wonder if they are Liberals or Conservatives.

I wonder which side I should sit on; the Liberal side, or the conservative side.

Oh yeah, judging from her clothes; she's liberal.

Boy he sings that just like a Conservative!

Boy that Preachers Fundy all the way, moderately speaking of course!


Things I never say or think while praying, and walking with God:

Lord give me all the blessing that you have for me, because I am Conservative.

Lord are you Conservative or Liberal? Fundamentally speaking of course.

And Forgive all those who are not Conservative Lord.

Lord, is it possible to be a Fundamental, and Liberal at the same time? If so, would that make it Libmental?


Sherrie

Thats right, oh that we could all come together in that spirit.

yours, Jon.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Sherrie:
I attend and am a member of the SBC. But I am probably a little of all of them. I never think of those words while reading and studying my Bible, while sitting in Church, or while praying and walking with God.

Here are some things that never came to mind while sitting in Church:

I wonder if they are Liberals or Conservatives.

I wonder which side I should sit on; the Liberal side, or the conservative side.

Oh yeah, judging from her clothes; she's liberal.

Boy he sings that just like a Conservative!

Boy that Preachers Fundy all the way, moderately speaking of course!


Things I never say or think while praying, and walking with God:

Lord give me all the blessing that you have for me, because I am Conservative.

Lord are you Conservative or Liberal? Fundamentally speaking of course.

And Forgive all those who are not Conservative Lord.

Lord, is it possible to be a Fundamental, and Liberal at the same time? If so, would that make it Libmental?


Sherrie

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't think I heard anyone saying these things here. Perhaps, you can show me where these things are.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[AprilDawn]

Wow I guess I really should of studied what those words mean to everyone else before I answered. I said conservative because most people I see are pretty loose. It seems to me that people more and more are accepting all kinds of things. However, I don't consider myself uptight or anything. I don't spend my time mentally sending other people to Hell.