Where did the Wrath of God go? Part 2

[JesusFan]

The only reason God is said to be the just and the justifier is because He designed a way to justly punish all sin....that is known in scripture as the CROSS.
You weave the verse into your post without the meaning of the words being there.Another empty husk..
Why an empty husk? You offer no biblical answer.
You say basically the wicked absorb all the wrath.You were a child of wrath even as others...but the wrath DUE to your law breaking just dissolves?
You offer partial verses saying look I have mentioned the term just and justifier, as if you addressed it but you are actually avoiding it.
You were being answered last night before the towel was thrown in to rescue you.
No one questions why those at the White Throne judgment are sent into second death.
That let's you mention the word wrath as if that answers for who turns away the wrath from us in a way that is just.
I understand just fine by the way.
I understand your response seeks to avoid the meaning of the cross.
Bottom line is your idea of forgiveness and then a quick new creation, let's just forget it happened, scenario while millions experience wrath for each and every sin they committed is not justice when others are just released and wrath for their sin is just dissolved, disappeared, with no relation to the cross is not just.

JonC simply has no basis that He has given to us that shows on what basis God can justify the sinner and yet still remain true to Himself!

 

[JesusFan]

I have shown you many reasons why they don't. And also, it is only the JWs who have their own translation. Christadelphians and other Unitarians use other translations, mostly the KJV.

You still don't understand. Christ was not condemned by God. On the contrary, He was vindicated by the Father at His resurrection (Romans 1:4). On the cross, He willingly took our sins upon Himself and bore the shame and the punishment of them (Hebrews 12:2) in our place. And the Father, who is of purer eyes than to behold evil turned His face away from Him during that time until propitiation was made and our sins paid for.
If God had just taken some random bloke against his will and punished him for someone else's sins, that would be an abomination, but in fact it is God Himself, in the Person of the Lord Jesus who has Himself redeemed us from our sins.

And this is not an abomination! It is wonderful and marvellous beyond all praise! '.....He Himself took upon Him our sins, Himself gave His own Son as a ransom for us.....For what could cover our sins but His righteousness In whom was it possible for us, lawless and impious as we were, to be justified, save only in the Son of God? Oh, sweet exchange and unsearchable act of creation....that the lawlessness of many should be hidden in the one righteous, and that the righteousness of one should justify many who were lawless!'

he refuses to see that our sins were imputed to Christ!

 

[JonC]

I have shown you many reasons why they don't. And also, it is only the JWs who have their own translation. Christadelphians and other Unitarians use other translations, mostly the KJV.

You still don't understand. Christ was not condemned by God. On the contrary, He was vindicated by the Father at His resurrection (Romans 1:4). On the cross, He willingly took our sins upon Himself and bore the shame and the punishment of them (Hebrews 12:2) in our place. And the Father, who is of purer eyes than to behold evil turned His face away from Him during that time until propitiation was made and our sins paid for.
If God had just taken some random bloke against his will and punished him for someone else's sins, that would be an abomination, but in fact it is God Himself, in the Person of the Lord Jesus who has Himself redeemed us from our sins.

And this is not an abomination! It is wonderful and marvellous beyond all praise! '.....He Himself took upon Him our sins, Himself gave His own Son as a ransom for us.....For what could cover our sins but His righteousness In whom was it possible for us, lawless and impious as we were, to be justified, save only in the Son of God? Oh, sweet exchange and unsearchable act of creation....that the lawlessness of many should be hidden in the one righteous, and that the righteousness of one should justify many who were lawless!'

I think you missed my point.

We're a Jehovahs Witness to pick up my Bible I can show him the Trinity in the text of Scripture. He will see the text. But he will most likely rationalize it away. He will insist on what he believes the passages teach, NOT what is written in the text that lay before him.

You and @Iconoclast are exactly the same way. The two of you do not believe what is written in the text of Scripture but what you think it "teaches" when "properly understood".

 

[agedman]

he refuses to see that our sins were imputed to Christ!

I think you need to perhaps reread what JonC has posted. All are basically saying similar things (imo), yet, because of held views concerning PSA, it is assumed the posts are not in agreement to some degree.

Sometimes I get confused in JonC's posts when he is quoting someone when replying.

He is not disputing the Scriptures posted nor dismissing them, but showing how some are presenting the Scriptures with the PSA agenda.
Such an agenda obliges adding a certain thought pattern to the text to conform it to the PSA thinking.

For example: I am definitely not a fan of the word "substitute" for I just do not find it in the NT Scriptures when it pertains to the Christ.

However, I find the word "satisfaction, satisfactory, ..." a far better word. I can understand those who use "substitute" but the use hearkens to a need to be used by the PSA which has "substitute" as a major theme.

 

[agedman]

I have shown you many reasons why they don't. And also, it is only the JWs who have their own translation. Christadelphians and other Unitarians use other translations, mostly the KJV.

You still don't understand. Christ was not condemned by God. On the contrary, He was vindicated by the Father at His resurrection (Romans 1:4). On the cross, He willingly took our sins upon Himself and bore the shame and the punishment of them (Hebrews 12:2) in our place. And the Father, who is of purer eyes than to behold evil turned His face away from Him during that time until propitiation was made and our sins paid for.
If God had just taken some random bloke against his will and punished him for someone else's sins, that would be an abomination, but in fact it is God Himself, in the Person of the Lord Jesus who has Himself redeemed us from our sins.

And this is not an abomination! It is wonderful and marvellous beyond all praise! '.....He Himself took upon Him our sins, Himself gave His own Son as a ransom for us.....For what could cover our sins but His righteousness In whom was it possible for us, lawless and impious as we were, to be justified, save only in the Son of God? Oh, sweet exchange and unsearchable act of creation....that the lawlessness of many should be hidden in the one righteous, and that the righteousness of one should justify many who were lawless!'

Martin, I bolded that which I cannot find in the Scriptures.

Would you mind providing me Scriptures so I may see from where you are gathering support?

 

[agedman]

On a recently closed thread, @JonC asked me some questions which I will now answer:

1. There is a huge number of texts that show that Christ was our substitute. I will post just one:
'He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree.' He bore our sins so that we don't have to. He bore them; we don't. If He didn't bear them, we would have to do so. He is our substitute.

Doesn't the word "bore" mean to accept, lift, sacrifice, offer up?

Does not substitute mean replace? In what did Christ replace the sin? Is there a verse that directly links the replacement?
For example: 1 Peter 2:24 paraphrases Isaiah

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.​

However, that verse isn't showing substitution, but satisfaction, because "... MIGHT die to sin and live...." It shows the human obligation where substitution would resolve to no human obligation.
And again in 2 Corinthians is the same principle:

20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.​

Not substitution, but satisfaction.
The difference in how one looks upon substitution in comparison to satisfaction is very important, wouldn't you agree?

There is no point in Christ bearing our sins unless He also bears the wrath entailed with them, otherwise God is still angry with us. But also Romans 3:25-26 tells us that God set forth Christ as a 'propitiation,' that is, a 'wrath removing sacrifice' (William Hendricksen). The Greek word indicates the blood-sprinkled lid of the ark of the covenant; the "mercy seat" (KJV, NKJV) or "atonement cover" (NIV).

IMO, one must be rather careful in how they present propitiation as only a "wrath removing sacrifice" for propitiation had a more aspects then that single item.

One must also understand why there was no wrath from God upon the sacrifice. The sacrifice removed the wrath, it "propitiated" the wrath, not by enduring the wrath, but satisfying the wrath. Not a single place does the Scriptures present that Christ endured the wrath from God.
Rather, as Hebrews 9:

11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
...
24For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.​

Again, we see the propitiation not in the agenda of the substitute, but that which was, as the OT sacrificial system, done to bring satisfaction.

Satisfaction has no obligation to expunge the wrath of God. For the Scriptures teach that believers can also suffer as did the Christ. Here is an example from 1 Peter 4:

12Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. 14If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. 15But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. 16Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. 17For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18And

“If the righteous is scarcely saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”c

19Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.​

The obvious question then is were is this not exactly the same as the Christ? Did He not even emulate the end of all by glorifying God and entrusting the Father with His Spirit?

On the Day of Atonement, the High Priest must first make atonement for his own sins before he could do so for the people, otherwise God's wrath would remain on him and any sacrifice he offered would be rejected. The reason that Christ is made a propitiation is so that God may be 'just, and the justifier of the one who believes in Jesus.' God's wrath is righteous and judicial. He 'cannot deny Himself.' He cannot just pour Himself a large gin and tonic, take a deep breath and 'get over' His anger against sin. Justice must be done; sin must be punished, and it is, in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, WERE on the day of atonement did the wrath of God go? Did it just vanish? OR was the wrath satisfactorily "propitiated?"

3. Romans 5:6. 'For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.' What does this mean? It means that Christ died, so that ungodly sinners like you and I who believe on Him, will never die (John 11:25-26). He died instead of us.

Oh, Martin, He did die in our STEAD, not instead.

Two completely different meanings and often mistaken to mean the same, but they do not.


There is no problem with understanding and agreeing with the first part of this part of the post. Christ died. "He died so that ungodly sinners like you and I who believe on Him, will never die."

He died in our stead.

For those who want to see instead and stead used properly, here is one link (there are many) which show how "stead" should be used rather then "instead." https://www.englishforums.com/English/SteadInstead/gpnxz/post.htm

 

[JesusFan]

I think you missed my point.

We're a Jehovahs Witness to pick up my Bible I can show him the Trinity in the text of Scripture. He will see the text. But he will most likely rationalize it away. He will insist on what he believes the passages teach, NOT what is written in the text that lay before him.

You and @Iconoclast are exactly the same way. The two of you do not believe what is written in the text of Scripture but what you think it "teaches" when "properly understood".

We still have yet to see where you have shown to us how and on what basis God can have His wrath and judgement due us be propiated?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Martin, I bolded that which I cannot find in the Scriptures.

Would you mind providing me Scriptures so I may see from where you are gathering support?

I referenced Romans 1:4.

Doesn't the word "bore" mean to accept, lift, sacrifice, offer up?

No. It means to carry, as in bearing a burden, or to endure as in bearing illness or pain. . We read that 'The LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.' God laid that upon Him and He bore it willingly on our behalf - in our stead; instead of us..

Does not substitute mean replace? In what did Christ replace the sin? Is there a verse that directly links the replacement?

Christ was not the substitute for sin, He was our substitute. 'The LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.' Once that iniquity was laid to our account; then it was laid to His.

Oh, Martin, He did die in our STEAD, not instead.

Two completely different meanings and often mistaken to mean the same, but they do not.

There is no problem with understanding and agreeing with the first part of this part of the post. Christ died. "He died so that ungodly sinners like you and I who believe on Him, will never die."

He died in our stead.

For those who want to see instead and stead used properly, here is one link (there are many) which show how "stead" should be used rather then "instead." https://www.englishforums.com/English/SteadInstead/gpnxz/post.htm

You need to re-read your link. 'In his stead' means the same as 'instead of him;' it's just an old-fashioned way of saying it. There is a separate use of 'stead' when someone says, "This will stand you in good stead.' This means it will be advantageous or of good use to you. To be quite clear, I mean that Christ suffered instead of us, which is exactly the same as saying that Christ died in our stead. Thus the Oxford English Dictionary: "In person's or thing's stead: instead of him or it, as substitute."

 

[Revmitchell]

Let's look at it.

1. SCRIPTURE- "He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree."

NOT Scripture - He bore our sins so that we don't have to. He bore them; we don't. If He didn't bear them, we would have to do so. He is our substitute.

2. SCRIPTURE - Romans 1:18–24 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

Psalm 7:9–16. O let the evil of the wicked come to an end, but establish the righteous; For the righteous God tries the hearts and minds. My shield is with God, Who saves the upright in heart. God is a righteous judge, And a God who has indignation every day. If a man does not repent, He will sharpen His sword;
He has bent His bow and made it ready.
He has also prepared for Himself deadly weapons; He makes His arrows fiery shafts. Behold, he travails with wickedness,
And he conceives mischief and brings forth falsehood. He has dug a pit and hollowed it out,
And has fallen into the hole which he made. His mischief will return upon his own head, and his violence will descend upon his own pate

NOT in Scripture: There is no point in Christ bearing our sins unless He also bears the wrath entailed with them, otherwise God is still angry with us.

3. SCRIPTURE - Romans 5:1–10 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

This is true - It means that Christ died, so that ungodly sinners like you and I who believe on Him, will never die.

THIS IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE - He died instead of us.


How do you justify the things you have added to Scripture in your post?

has got to be one of the most unintelligent idiotic posts on this board. Ever

 

[JonC]

has got to be one of the most unintelligent idiotic posts on this board. Ever

And that has got to be one of the most illiterate expressions uttered on this board.

In the post @Martin Marprelate posted Scripture mingled with what he sees that text teaching.

 

[Revmitchell]

And that has got to be one of the most illiterate expressions uttered on this board.

In the post @Martin Marprelate posted Scripture mingled with what he sees that text teaching.

Yes f course ive never done that

 

[JonC]

Yes f course ive never done that

I said that @Martin Marprelate posted Scripture along with what he believes it teaches, but what he believes is taught is not actually in the text of Scripture.

Now....gird up your loins and try to stand like a man (prove your post) -

1. "He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree."

Where is "He bore our sins so that we don't have to. He bore them; we don't. If He didn't bear them, we would have to do so. He is our substitute." actually in that passage?

Hint...it is not. You add it.

2. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them."

Psalm 7:9–16. O let the evil of the wicked come to an end, but establish the righteous; For the righteous God tries the hearts and minds. My shield is with God, Who saves the upright in heart. God is a righteous judge, And a God who has indignation every day. If a man does not repent, He will sharpen His sword;
He has bent His bow and made it ready.
He has also prepared for Himself deadly weapons; He makes His arrows fiery shafts. Behold, he travails with wickedness,
And he conceives mischief and brings forth falsehood. He has dug a pit and hollowed it out,
And has fallen into the hole which he made. His mischief will return upon his own head, and his violence will descend upon his own pate

Where is it in those two passages that Christ bears the wrath entailed with them, otherwise God is still angry with us?

Again.....here's a hint (looks like you need it)...it isn't. You ADD it to Scripture.


Rather than arguing for what you believe, you and @Martin Marprelate simply say it is in Scripture. But the fact is....it is not.

 

[Revmitchell]

I said that @Martin Marprelate posted Scripture along with what he believes it teaches, but what he believes is taught is not actually in the text of Scripture.

Now....gird up your loins and try to stand like a man (prove your post) -

1. "He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree."

Where is "He bore our sins so that we don't have to. He bore them; we don't. If He didn't bear them, we would have to do so. He is our substitute." actually in that passage?

Hint...it is not. You add it.

2. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them."

Psalm 7:9–16. O let the evil of the wicked come to an end, but establish the righteous; For the righteous God tries the hearts and minds. My shield is with God, Who saves the upright in heart. God is a righteous judge, And a God who has indignation every day. If a man does not repent, He will sharpen His sword;
He has bent His bow and made it ready.
He has also prepared for Himself deadly weapons; He makes His arrows fiery shafts. Behold, he travails with wickedness,
And he conceives mischief and brings forth falsehood. He has dug a pit and hollowed it out,
And has fallen into the hole which he made. His mischief will return upon his own head, and his violence will descend upon his own pate

Where is it in those two passages that Christ bears the wrath entailed with them, otherwise God is still angry with us?

Again.....here's a hint (looks like you need it)...it isn't. You ADD it to Scripture.


Rather than arguing for what you believe, you and @Martin Marprelate simply say it is in Scripture. But the fact is....it is not.

What clearly says Christ is our substitute has been posted over and over again by many including me. Scripture is clear and it is not debatable.

Yet you see it and refuse what us clear. At this point your obstinance has reached tremendous levels. You work hard to add specific words that must be said in order for you to personally believe this clear and highly important doctrine.

Your personal list of words in order for you to personally believe what is already clear in scripture is not impressive. Its absurd.

I stopped responding to your posts on this because you would cherry pick what parts of my posts you would respond to. I believe you ignored what you cant deal with.

Since in this thread your idiotic posts has reached epic level i pointed that out . You really should be embarrassed.

 

[JonC]

What clearly says Christ is our substitute has been posted over and over again by many including me. Scripture is clear and it is not debatable.

I understand that is what you think Scripture clearly says. It is ironic that you cannot find even one passage that actually says it.

What you do is try to tell Christians that your minority views about what you think Scripture teaches but was somehow left out of the text is right because it is what you and a large minority of Christians believe.

Others do the same.

Calvinists say that Scripture teaches that Jesus died for some people, the ones God chose to save. And they provide Scripture mixed in with what they feel the Bible teaches as well.

Jehovah's Witnesses do the same. And so do Mormons.

But none of those beliefs (including yours) can pass the test of Scripture. You can only test what you believe Scripture teaches against what you believe it teaches. That is poor theology.

 

[Revmitchell]

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."—2 Corinthians

This verse right here alone shows Christ is our substitute. Saying Christ was made to be sin for us...those very words mean He is our substitute. I am saying that 1+3=4 and Jonc us saying no it isn't unless it says 1+1+1+=4 then it doesn't mean it = 4. Its absurd.

Isaiah 53:1�6

4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.


Who was He smitten by God for? Who was He stricken for? Not simply to get the victory but He suffered those things for us. That in and of itself shows Christ is our substitute, What kind of idiotic thinking says otherwise,? it makes no sense,.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed.

Again, crushed for our iniquities, it ws our sin He suffered for. We didn't have to suffer for our sin Jesus did that for us. That right there is Christ our substitute.


6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

God laid the sin of all of us on Jesus. Man, you have to bend your brain inside out to ignore that substitution factor right there, I expect that kind of thing from lost people but it is astounding when those who are believers instantly reject this clear doctrine of scripture. What is wrong with people. Not sure why this needs explaining. Good grief.

 

[Revmitchell]

I understand that is what you think Scripture clearly says. It is ironic that you cannot find even one passage that actually says it.

y.

I just gave you plenty

 

[Iconoclast]

I just gave you plenty

Yes, you and MM have posted more than enough scripture to show the clear teaching of scripture.
When people drift from truth it happens step by step. One error leads to another, then the person says I used to believe as you do,but then...

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC,

You and @Iconoclast are exactly the same way. The two of you do not believe what is written in the text of Scripture but what you think it "teaches" when "properly understood".

Many unsaved people read scripture and cannot figure out what it teaches when properly understood.
Both of us believe what is written, and understand what it teaches at the same time.
Sorry you do not share what most believers share in common

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I said that @Martin Marprelate posted Scripture along with what he believes it teaches, but what he believes is taught is not actually in the text of Scripture.

Now....gird up your loins and try to stand like a man (prove your post) -

1. "He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree."

Where is "He bore our sins so that we don't have to. He bore them; we don't. If He didn't bear them, we would have to do so. He is our substitute." actually in that passage?

Hint...it is not. You add it.

I am very happy to accept your challenge. ! Peter 2:21-25 is one of the many very clear passages which prove the Doctrine of Penal Substitution. I will open a new thread, hopefully this evening (UK time).

 

[JonC]

I just gave you plenty

You gave me plenty of verses. But you never gave any verses that say what you believe. That is the issue.

I can say "In the beginning Goc created the heavens and the earth. This proves dogs fly." The issue wouldn't be the verse I provide but my adding "dogs fly". And I can do this over and over again, insisting that the passage teaches that digs fly....but th fact is it fails the test of Scripture.

That is what you do.

Scripture says Christ bore our sins. You say this means Christ was punished instead of us. Your comprehension skills are lacking. I am not even sure you realize that you add to Scripture.