I do not believe that God Loves everyone in the world, I have heard the term love the sinner but hate the sin. I dont think however that God hates anyone for no reason. I believe God has a judicial disdain for those who practice lawlessness, and any ill or hate toward anyone is because they are sinners. God has told Christians to love everyone and do good to all. (if only he would have excluded liberals) a small joke. i also do not believe that everyone in the world is drawn to God or called to make a decision or not to be saved. it is clear that God has left some to remain in their own sin and suffer the consequence, other wise many would have heard the gospel before they died. i also believe God reveals the truth and knowledge for even the simple to know his word, i am the first to admit that being grounded in truth is from the Holy Spirit and not any of mans wisdom, i have seen many more biblically studied people that have wrong doctrine, this goes to show that the wisdom into Gods word is a gift. study to show thyself approved is scripture, yet God must reveal it to you. some churches stress hate and others stress love without the biblical balance and doctrine that has the correct meaning, many times if not clarified a person can be put in the wrong group. it seems that it gets harder to complain about liberal theology because of type casting and the same old remarks about how Christians condoned slavery and keeping women down blah blah blah. last i believe that the most dangerous gospel is to add any merit or works or tears or prayers or feelings etc., for any saving value to Christ for salvation, anything even in the most small amount added poisons Gods grace. I would like to know where you all stand?
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Where do you stand?
- Thread starter massdak
- Start date
timothy 1769
New Member
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
timothy 1769
New Member
but it's also true:
Psalms 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
perhaps it's a kind of love/hate relationship, where we deserve the hate but not the love.
Psalms 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
perhaps it's a kind of love/hate relationship, where we deserve the hate but not the love.
God loves all mankind and all of His creation, as a Creator would so love. That had NOTHING to do with eternal salvation.
God only loves His own [elect, chosen] in a special salific way. Others?
The "wrath of God" is already on them! So much for a gushy, mushy "love".
BTW, if Jesus "draws all men to Him", He is a miserable failure. Hence, there HAS to be other definitions and understanding of "all" and "world".
God only loves His own [elect, chosen] in a special salific way. Others?
The "wrath of God" is already on them! So much for a gushy, mushy "love".
BTW, if Jesus "draws all men to Him", He is a miserable failure. Hence, there HAS to be other definitions and understanding of "all" and "world".
I don't think there is any question that Christ being lifted up on the cross drew ALL men unto Him......He drew attention to that historical fact. How many to-day use the name of Christ....as a curse word, when in fear, and many in adoration.
We must separate the act of God in salvation and the acts of God to humanity. I think these two are defined in the scriptures.
He does all things to His own end.
It is not a wonder that God saves many. It is a wonder that God saves any.
Cheers,
Jim
We must separate the act of God in salvation and the acts of God to humanity. I think these two are defined in the scriptures.
He does all things to His own end.
It is not a wonder that God saves many. It is a wonder that God saves any.
Cheers,
Jim
Mark Osgatharp
New Member
Dr. Bob,
The wrath of God abides on all unbelievers. Therefore any real understanding of these things must acknowledge the fact that there is no such thing as an unbeliever who is elect.
Mark Osgatharp
Mark Osgatharp:
The wrath of God abides on all unbelievers. Therefore any real understanding of these things must acknowledge the fact that there is no such thing as an unbeliever who is elect.
__________________________________________________
YES!
Dr. Bob:
In all due respect, I must dissent.
Calvinist must reinvent definitions of words to make Calvinism work, but these words mean exactly as the dictionary would define them. All is still All. Also, Jesus did not and has not failed at anything; it is man who has failed. As to those who have never heard, the Bible is plain that they are without escuse, because He has made himself known to them in what He has made. NOTE:
total inability (to perceive and know God) is not taught in the scriptures.
Calvinist must also insert words(or at least imply that there are words inserted in the text),
Such as:
"For God so loved the ELECT OF THE world..."
Even John Calvin himself, late in his life, came to reject this teaching, it is sad that it is still around.
The wrath of God abides on all unbelievers. Therefore any real understanding of these things must acknowledge the fact that there is no such thing as an unbeliever who is elect.
__________________________________________________
YES!
Dr. Bob:
In all due respect, I must dissent.
Calvinist must reinvent definitions of words to make Calvinism work, but these words mean exactly as the dictionary would define them. All is still All. Also, Jesus did not and has not failed at anything; it is man who has failed. As to those who have never heard, the Bible is plain that they are without escuse, because He has made himself known to them in what He has made. NOTE:
total inability (to perceive and know God) is not taught in the scriptures.
Calvinist must also insert words(or at least imply that there are words inserted in the text),
Such as:
"For God so loved the ELECT OF THE world..."
Even John Calvin himself, late in his life, came to reject this teaching, it is sad that it is still around.
IMO, To be "drawn" does not necessarily mean to "hear" the Gospel.
John 1
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 15
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Terry_Herrington
New Member
I believe that God loves all of mankind and longs for them all to repent and be saved. However, if a person, of their own free will, rejects this love, God allows them this freedom. Some of the previous posts show that the only way Calvinism can work is by twisting Scripture.
The love of darkness or the love of the truth.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
The love of darkness or the love of the truth.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. </font>[/QUOTE]so you take those verses to mean that some love truth when drawn and others dont. correct? so you are saying something inside of some people will love the truth while others will not. could it be that the ones drawn by God will love truth and the others that are not drawn will not?
Bro. James Reed
New Member
Romans 9
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
God does not love everyone. Case closed. BTW, you can also see in vs. 16 how the freewill theory is thrown out of the window.
I am just happy that He had pity and love for me and adopted me into His family.
God Bless His children is my prayer. Bro. James
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
God does not love everyone. Case closed. BTW, you can also see in vs. 16 how the freewill theory is thrown out of the window.
I am just happy that He had pity and love for me and adopted me into His family.
God Bless His children is my prayer. Bro. James
Terry_Herrington
New Member
John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
(NIV)
Rom 5:8
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
(NIV)
God does love everyone in the world, case closed.
One of the greatest dangers of Calvinism is this production of spiritual pride. Things said, such as, "I'm glad that God loves me" loses its humility. Being one of the "elect" implies that "I" must be, somehow, more acceptable because, after all, God did choose me and not others.
God loves everyone and is grieved because so many continue to reject Him. We are the ones that do the rejecting, not God.
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
(NIV)
Rom 5:8
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
(NIV)
God does love everyone in the world, case closed.
One of the greatest dangers of Calvinism is this production of spiritual pride. Things said, such as, "I'm glad that God loves me" loses its humility. Being one of the "elect" implies that "I" must be, somehow, more acceptable because, after all, God did choose me and not others.
God loves everyone and is grieved because so many continue to reject Him. We are the ones that do the rejecting, not God.