Where Does Believing Faith Come From

[Amy.G]

Actually, many posts here are like the people whom Jesus rebuked in the parable of the worker. They want to tell God what to do. Jesus tells them, "Don't I have the right to do what I want with my money?" Winman and Amy say "No! Man makes the decision of the universe." :laugh:

Claiming that faith comes from the self is called "self-righteousness", the yeast of the Pharisees. "By their fruits you will recognize them."

Are you calling Winman and me self righteous Pharisees? Is that the fruit that you see?

 

[Carico]

Then why did Jesus say "many are called, but few are chosen"?

Matt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

"Many are invited but few are chosen." Again, for the umpteenth time, since no one but God knows who His elect are, then no man can say that God is not drawing him. So again, you need to read Malachai, Romans 11, Deuteronomy, all the books of the prophets to see that it is God who is blinding the eyes of the Jews. But he will save a remnant and no one but God knows who the remnant are. Then you won't ask so many questions.

 

[Winman]

They can't possibly want to believe according to your own words. Remember that no one seeks God? Now you are saying that these atheists are seeking God. Which is it????????

Carico is trapped by her own words. And just a minute ago she said that no one can know who will be saved, but now she knows all her atheist friends will be saved.

Carico says no person can seek God without being regenerated, but said she sought to believe the Bible for years, but could not until she received the Holy Spirit.

You just go on believeing that man-made doctrine of yours. As you can see, it doesn't hold up to scriptures, or even your own personal experience.

 

[Carico]

Are you calling Winman and me self righteous Pharisees? Is that the fruit that you see?

You called me arrogant, in fact, you said I was the most arrogant person on this board. "You reap what you sow."

Again, anyone who believes that faith and righteousness comes from the self- not from God is self-righteous. That's self-evident.

The "faith" of the Pharisees didn't come from the indwelling Holy Spirit which is why they had no clue what Jesus was talking about when he talked about being born again. Their "faith" wasn't saving faith; it was faith in their own goodness and righteousness. And that's the kind of "faith" that people who claim that their faith comes from themselves, not from God have.

 

[Amy.G]

You called me arrogant, in fact, you said I was the most arrogant person on this board. "You reap what you sow."

Again, anyone who believes that faith and righteousness comes from the self- not from God is self-righteous. That's self-evident.

The "faith" of the Pharisees didn't come from the indwelling Holy Spirit which is why they had no clue what Jesus was talking about when he talked about being born again. Their "faith" wasn't saving faith; it was faith in their own goodness and righteousness. And that's the kind of "faith" that people who claim that their faith comes from themselves, not from God have.

Is that a yes? Do you think Winman and me are self righteous? Yes or No.

And I do stand by my statement that you are arrogant. Any human being that claims to be right all the time, about everything and everyone who disagrees with them is self righteous, doesn't believe scripture, doesn't believe Jesus and is just plain not saved, is an arrogant person, with a capital A. That describes you to a T.

 

[Amy.G]

Carico is trapped by her own words. And just a minute ago she said that no one can know who will be saved, but now she knows all her atheist friends will be saved.

Carico says no person can seek God without being regenerated, but said she sought to believe the Bible for years, but could not until she received the Holy Spirit.

You just go on believeing that man-made doctrine of yours. As you can see, it doesn't hold up to scriptures, or even your own personal experience.

This deserves repeating. Carico, would you like to rebut this?

 

[Carico]

Is that a yes? Do you think Winman and me are self righteous? Yes or No.

And I do stand by my statement that you are arrogant. Any human being that claims to be right and everyone who disagrees with them is self righteous, doesn't believe scripture, doesn't believe Jesus and is just plain not saved, is an arrogant person, with a capital A. That describes you to a T.

I answered your question. All you and Winman have to do is look inside yourselves to see whether you give yourselves the credit for your faith or whether you give it to God and you will have your question answered. Good day. :wavey:

 

[Winman]

You called me arrogant, in fact, you said I was the most arrogant person on this board. "You reap what you sow."

Again, anyone who believes that faith and righteousness comes from the self- not from God is self-righteous. That's self-evident.

The "faith" of the Pharisees didn't come from the indwelling Holy Spirit which is why they had no clue what Jesus was talking about when he talked about being born again. Their "faith" wasn't saving faith; it was faith in their own goodness and righteousness. And that's the kind of "faith" that people who claim that their faith comes from themselves, not from God have.

No one has ever said that righteousness come from self. The scriptures say righteousness is imputed to those that believe.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Now Carico, I doubt you will accept this, but I believe these scriptures prove that a man believes while he is yet spiritually dead.

Abraham was about 100 years old, Sarah was 90. It was physically impossible for them to have children. But God promised Abraham and Sarah that they would have a child. Now, in what state were they when this promise was made? Physically dead. And these verses say that twice. It says he considered not his own body "NOW DEAD" , neither the "DEADNESS" of Sarah's womb. God did not say these things for no reason. It shows that Abraham and Sarah believed when in a physical state of death as far as bearing children.

And notice in verse 21 it says that Abraham believed what God had promised (past tense), he was also "ABLE TO PERFORM". So the promise was fullfilled later. In fact, if you know the story, Isaac wasn't born until many years afterward. Yes, God did quicken their physical bodies so that they could have a child, but it was much later. So when they believed they were physically dead.

And these verses say because Abraham believed it was imputed unto him for righteousness.

And then it says righteousness will also be imputed to us if we also believe.

So, these verses are using an analogy of physical death to show what happens spiritually.

I believe this proves without a doubt that we hear and believe God's promises while spiritually dead, and after believeing receive the Spirit and are quickened.

I doubt you or any other Calvinist will accept this, but this is what I truly believe the scriptures show.

 

[kyredneck]

It is a mistake to confuse the gift of the Holy Ghost, i.e. the baptism of the Spirit, the clothing with power from on high, the sending of the comforter, which came on the Day of Pentecost, with the work of the Spirit in regeneration. The two are not the same. The former was a special ministration of the Spirit and a gift to the infant church which enabled it to grow and spread and to conduct it's warfare “against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.” This ministration of the Spirit was the ONLY reason that the gates of hell did not prevail against the church. The work of the Spirit in regeneration had been around long before the Day of Pentecost.

Nice, not one verse of scripture to support all that.

Passages such as these are prophetic of something which is yet to come:

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water.
39 But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified. Jn 7

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me: Jn 15

49 And behold, I send forth the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city, until ye be clothed with power from on high. Lu 24

These passages are a statement of fact of that which is now:

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
8 The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Jn 3

 

[Amy.G]

I answered your question. All you have to do is look inside yourselves to see whether you give yourselves the credit for your faith or whether you give it to God and you will have your question answered. Good day. :wavey:

No. You did not answer the question. You accused Winman and me of self righteousness in a back handed way. But you don't seem to be able to say it to my face. I will take your dodging as a yes.
Your twisted opinion of me doesn't make it true however.

Please produce a post in which I ever said that righteousness comes from myself. If you're going to accuse me of things, be sure you can back it up, otherwise you are a liar.

 

[Carico]

No one has ever said that righteousness come from self. The scriptures say righteousness is imputed to those that believe

Yes you did. that's what the arguments on this thread have been about; those who say that faith is a gift from God so that no one can boast and people like you who oppose that belief. But if you've changed your mind, then there's no reason to argue; "Faith is a gift from God so that no one can boast. There are only 2 powers in the world; God and Satan. So faith either comes from Satan or it comes from God. And it does not come from Satan or the sinful nature.

So the only other place that faith can come from is the Holy Spirit as 1 Corinthians 2:11-14, Ephesians 2:8-9 and 1 Corinthians 12;8-9 explain. So there is no further reason to argue. :wavey:

 

[Winman]

Passages such as these are prophetic of something which is yet to come:

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water.
39 But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified. Jn 7

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me: Jn 15

49 And behold, I send forth the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city, until ye be clothed with power from on high. Lu 24

These passages are a statement of fact of that which is now:

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
8 The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Jn 3

That does not say one word about them being regenerated to believe, that is 100% assumption on your part. In fact, no where in all the scriptures, not one single verse does it say a person is regenerated to believe.

No, these verses show that people believed, and then received the Spirit afterward.

And those verses from John 3 I have already explained. They are simply showing that a person cannot see the Holy Spirit, but that we can see the effects of the Spirit. We can see the leaves rustle, we can see dust blow up, we can hear the wind, we can feel the wind, yet we cannot see the wind or where it goes. There is not one word about regeneration in that verse. And Jesus explains further about the Holy Spirit not being able to be observed with the eyes in Luke.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

And this is what you see with Calvinists. They have about 10 or 15 pet verses they quote over and over, often taken completely out of context or misinterpreted to attempt (unsuccessfully) to prove a man-made doctrine.

 

[Carico]

That does not say one word about them being regenerated to believe, that is 100% assumption on your part. In fact, no where in all the scriptures, not one single verse does it say a person is regenerated to believe.

You just said that faith doesn't come from the self. Now you're going back to saying that faith does come from the self. So you've contradicted yourself so many times, that I don't even think that you know what you believe!

And you are wrong. 1 Corinthians 2;14 says that. iI says that one cannot understand God without the Holy Spirit.

 

[Carico]

Winman,

Do you know why faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit? Or not?

 

[Winman]

You just said that faith doesn't come from the self. Now you're going back to saying that faith does come from the self. So you've contradicted yourself so many times, that I don't even think that you know what you believe!

And you are wrong. 1 Corinthians 2;14 says that. iI says that one cannot understand God without the Holy Spirit.

I have said dozens of times that faith comes from hearing the word of God.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I personally believe that faith is a "common grace", that is, a gift given to all men, whether saved or unsaved. Everything in the entire universe is a gift from God, without God none of us would even exist.

But unsaved men have faith. Even the scriptures show that men trust in false gods, so obviously they have the ability to have faith.

It is not faith that saves you. It is Jesus himself who enters you and quickens you that gives you eternal life. But God's method for receiveing Jesus is through faith. If all men have this ability, then all men can be saved.

I don't believe anything or any ability I have is from myself. My very being and every ability I have is a gift from God.

 

[kyredneck]

..... We can see the leaves rustle, we can see dust blow up, we can hear the wind, we can feel the wind, yet we cannot see the wind or where it goes. There is not one word about regeneration in that verse.....

You're saying ".....so is every one that is born of the Spirit" is not regeneration?

 

[Carico]

I have said dozens of times that faith comes from hearing the word of God.

And I have said dozens of times, that atheists, Muslims, Jews and pagans have heard the word of God and still don't believe. So you are incorrect. You are also boasting about your faith because you claim that it comes from yourself, not from God. Again, that's called self-righteousness.

All you have to do is believe 1 Corinthians 2;14, Ephesians 2;8-9, 1 Corinthians 12;8-9 and you'll know where faith comes from. But you've heard those words and you don't believe them. If you did, you'd know that only the Holy Spirit can give a person the faith to know, believe and understand God. So I pray that God is drawing you to ask Him for the HS. Then I guarantee you will know that faith is a gift from God, so that no one can boast. Good day.

 

[jcjordan]

How is faith in false gods a common grace? So you believe that when men believe in a false god, that it is because of common grace from God?

I have said dozens of times that faith comes from hearing the word of God.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I personally believe that faith is a "common grace", that is, a gift given to all men, whether saved or unsaved. Everything in the entire universe is a gift from God, without God none of us would even exist.

But unsaved men have faith. Even the scriptures show that men trust in false gods, so obviously they have the ability to have faith.

 

[Winman]

And Carico, I don't think you understand what faith is. Faith by definition means to depend on someone or something else and not to rely upon oneself. When I deposit money in the bank, I am completely relying upon them to keep it for me, I am no longer keeping it.

When I drive my car, I have faith and trust that the brakes will safely stop me. I do not stop the car, the brakes do, and I completely rely upon them. I do not put my feet down and stop the car like Fred Flintstone.

To believe on Christ means to 100% abandon any attempt at saving yourself and to rely completely on him. It is actually a ceasing from all work and self effort.

Did you ever see in the old days when the Fire Department used to carry those big nets? If you were caught in a high rise on fire, they would call out for you to jump and they promised to catch you.

Well, you could try to climb down, that would be depending on yourself. Or, you could jump and depend upon those firemen 100% to catch you. This is faith. It is a lack of self effort.

When I trusted Christ it means I am completely trusting him to save me. I called out in prayer believeing that he truly is the Son of God and could hear me. I am depending on his death burial and resurrection to pay for my sins. I am not trying to work my way to heaven. I am putting my very soul in his hands and depending upon him 100% to save me.

Faith is not a work, it is a ceasing from work.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Those that teach that believeing is a work are in error. That is not what the scriptures teach.

 

[Carico]

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Here the scriptures clearly show believers who had not yet received the Spirit.

And there are many other examples.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and pro

Do you know the difference between the 1st 3 groups in the parable of the sower; why they fell away and only the last group didn't? Because the first 3 had no root and the last group did. So you need to know the difference between saving faith and false faith. I'll give you a hint; you have to know who the root is. I'll let you think about that.