Where in the Bible . . . ?

[standingfirminChrist]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
Where in the Bible does it say that conservative theology is good and that liberal theology is bad?

How about Philippians 2:5 'Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.' ?

Christ was not liberal by any means.

 

[Craigbythesea]

standingfirminChrist wrote,

Christ was not liberal by any means.

Very many New Testament scholars would heartily disagree with you. What is the basis of your statement?

 

[Linda64]

What is the basis of this thread? The Bible itself is "orthodox", from Genesis to Revelation--it is our "sole" authority for Christian living. "Liberal" theology isn't Bible--it adds to and takes away from "sound biblical doctrine".

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Psalms 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Let me repeat--what exactly is the basis of this thread?

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by Linda64:
What is the basis of this thread? The Bible itself is "orthodox", from Genesis to Revelation--it is our "sole" authority for Christian living. "Liberal" theology isn't Bible--it adds to and takes away from "sound biblical doctrine".

What is the basis of these claims? None of the verses that you posted have in them so much as a hint of support for your claims. The verses are totally irrelevant to our discussion.

 

[arkie pastor]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Linda64:
What is the basis of this thread? The Bible itself is "orthodox", from Genesis to Revelation--it is our "sole" authority for Christian living. "Liberal" theology isn't Bible--it adds to and takes away from "sound biblical doctrine".

What is the basis of these claims? None of the verses that you posted have in them so much as a hint of support for your claims. The verses are totally irrelevant to our discussion.

</font>[/QUOTE]

 

[arkie pastor]

Well Craig if the Bible isn't our absolute truths to judge every thing by. Then I guess your oppinion or mine holds just as much weight as the other...

liberal....means taking liberality with matters... I believe with all my heart that the Bible is the only (absolute truth) that we have today.....and when mankind take the liberity to add thier private thoughts and interpitatons to God's word.....then we can clasify them as liberal...

This has been transpiring since the early churchs...all one has to do is read Pauls writting to the the churches like Corinthians, Galatia,ect, ect, to see that God defines liberals (those who take liberties which God has not allowed them to.

God inspired His word to fit all ages, til His blessed return...It is never outdated....we are not allowed times,events or any such thing to govern His blessed truths which He has set before us....

So can I call those who want to bring God down to our standards, rather than lifting themselves up to His standards liberal....yes,yes,yes...by the authority of His word I can.


arkie pastor

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by arkie pastor:
. . . . and when mankind take the liberity to add thier private thoughts and interpitatons to God's word.....then we can clasify them as liberal...

According to your definition supplied here, every Baptist posting to the Baptist Board is a liberal because we all, inevitably, “take the liberity to add [our] private thoughts and interpitatons to” the Bible. Fundamentalists do so based upon the grossest imaginable ignorance; liberals do it based upon many years of highly academic scholarship with a very detailed and comprehensive knowledge of the original languages, the original culture, and 2,000 years of biblical scholarship!

Originally posted by arkie pastor:
This has been transpiring since the early churchs...all one has to do is read Pauls writting to the the churches like Corinthians, Galatia,ect, ect, to see that God defines liberals (those who take liberties which God has not allowed them to.

Here you are not only taking “the liberity to add [your] private thoughts and interpitatons to” the Bible, you are adding thoughts and concepts to the words of the Apostle Paul that were totally foreign to him. Most certainly and incontrovertibly Paul was NOT writing of liberal theology or scholarship; he was writing of contaminating the gospel of Christ with Jewish legalism. In the first century, the conservative Christians were those who believed that the Law of Moses was the word of God and that every Christian was bound by them. The liberal Christians, on the other hand, were those who agreed that the Law of Moses was the word of God, but believed that it had no part in the gospel message. Paul was arrested in Jerusalem for being far too liberal in his theology!

The liberties that you are taking with the Holy Scriptures are enough to make me nauseous! And most certainly you shall answer to God for taking such liberties and handling the most precious word of God in such a manner as thou hast done!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

According to your definition supplied here, every Baptist posting to the Baptist Board is a liberal because we all, inevitably, “take the liberity to add [our] private thoughts and interpitatons to” the Bible. Fundamentalists do so based upon the grossest imaginable ignorance; liberals do it based upon many years of highly academic scholarship with a very detailed and comprehensive knowledge of the original languages, the original culture, and 2,000 years of biblical scholarship!

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Paul was not arrested for being liberal, he was arrested for proclaiming Christ crucified.

 

[bapmom]

Craig, don't you think its an incredibly broad and offensive picture to paint conservative as grossly ignorant and liberals as ultra-educated?

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />According to your definition supplied here, every Baptist posting to the Baptist Board is a liberal because we all, inevitably, “take the liberity to add [our] private thoughts and interpitatons to” the Bible. Fundamentalists do so based upon the grossest imaginable ignorance; liberals do it based upon many years of highly academic scholarship with a very detailed and comprehensive knowledge of the original languages, the original culture, and 2,000 years of biblical scholarship!

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Paul was not arrested for being liberal, he was arrested for proclaiming Christ crucified. </font>[/QUOTE]I don’t know what crazy history book you got your information from, but the Bible says,

Acts 21:27. When the seven days were almost over, the Jews from Asia, upon seeing him in the temple, began to stir up all the crowd and laid hands on him,
28. crying out, "Men of Israel, come to our aid! This is the man who preaches to all men everywhere against our people and the Law and this place; and besides he has even brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place."
29. For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian in the city with him, and they supposed that Paul had brought him into the temple. (NASB, 1995)

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by bapmom:
Craig, don't you think its an incredibly broad and offensive picture to paint conservative as grossly ignorant and liberals as ultra-educated?

It would not only be “an incredibly broad and offensive picture to paint conservative as grossly ignorant and liberals as ultra-educated”—it would be highly inaccurate and offensive to me personally. I did not write of “conservatives,” but of “fundamentalists”—I am a conservative, but I am most definitely not a fundamentalist.

From my perspective, a fundamentalist is a person who believes in such things as a young earth and a strictly literal interpretation of Genesis 1 – 11; a conservative is a person who has enough education to know better than to believe that which has been proven to be false, but believes in all of the essential Christian doctrines.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The accusations of Paul being arrested for being liberal are false.

Paul was commissioned to preach to the Gentiles that they might be engrafted into the True Vine.

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Paul was not being liberal, he was following the direct command of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

 

[bapmom]

ok Craig,

the same goes no matter which word you use.....conservative OR fundamentalist. Not all fundamentalists are grossly ignorant....apparently there are plenty of ignorant people on all sides of these issues.....

and I still do not see why it is so hard for you to accept the term "liberal". It simply means to take liberties with the Word of God. If it does not apply to you, in your thinking, than why would you even care about this issue?

 

[Linda64]

It would not only be “an incredibly broad and offensive picture to paint conservative as grossly ignorant and liberals as ultra-educated”—it would be highly inaccurate and offensive to me personally. I did not write of “conservatives,” but of “fundamentalists”—I am a conservative, but I am most definitely not a fundamentalist.

From my perspective, a fundamentalist is a person who believes in such things as a young earth and a strictly literal interpretation of Genesis 1 – 11; a conservative is a person who has enough education to know better than to believe that which has been proven to be false, but believes in all of the essential Christian doctrines.

It is obvious that you are not a fundamentalist by your statements.

The term "Fundamentalism" has come to mean any number of things and is commonly used in a derogatory and slanderous way by those who do not believe the Scriptures. It is used to describe all sorts of dangerous extremism, such as terrorist Muslims, Pentecostal snake-handlers, the racist Ayrian Nations, and cult leaders such as Jim Jones who caused the mass suicide of his followers

Way of Life Encyclopedia

It seems to me that the main purpose of this thread is to "dumb down" the fundamentals of the Christian faith--one of those "fundamentals" of the faith is the "LITERAL" interpretation of the Bible (which includes Genesis 1-11)

 

[Linda64]

Originally posted by bapmom:
ok Craig,

the same goes no matter which word you use.....conservative OR fundamentalist. Not all fundamentalists are grossly ignorant....apparently there are plenty of ignorant people on all sides of these issues.....

and I still do not see why it is so hard for you to accept the term "liberal". It simply means to take liberties with the Word of God. If it does not apply to you, in your thinking, than why would you even care about this issue?

AMEN bapmom!!

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by bapmom:
ok Craig,

the same goes no matter which word you use.....conservative OR fundamentalist. Not all fundamentalists are grossly ignorant....apparently there are plenty of ignorant people on all sides of these issues.....

and I still do not see why it is so hard for you to accept the term "liberal". It simply means to take liberties with the Word of God. If it does not apply to you, in your thinking, than why would you even care about this issue?

Hear is a reasonably fair and accurate characterization of liberal theology:

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Craig,

For us to have a productive discussion here, perhaps it would be good to agree on a definition of the term, liberal theology:

I, therefore, offer the following definition of the characteristics of liberal theology for consideration:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Liberal Christianity, progressive Christianity—or liberalism within a modern Christian context—is a movement within Christianity that is often characterized by the following features:

internal diversity of opinion
an embracing of higher criticism of the Bible with a corresponding willingness to question supernatural elements of biblical stories (e.g., the virgin birth)
the rejection of biblical literalism and the inerrancy of the Bible
the freedom to construct one's own personal view of God
broader views on salvation than those held by conservative Christians, including universalist beliefs
an emphasis on inclusive fellowship and community, often applied in recent years to racial minorities, women and homosexuals
a willingness to consider and adopt viewpoints which have their roots outside of Christianity (e.g., other faith/philosophical traditions)
a willingness to combine theology with modern scientific theories

Liberal Theology

Would you accept this characterization of liberal theology as fair and accurate? If so, then I think we could discuss reasonably the merits or demerits of each idea.

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]According to these characterizations, I am not a liberal. Yes, I share some of these characterizations to some extent with other conservatives as well as liberals. And I do not know of a single conservative New Testament scholar writing today who does not also share some of these characterizations to some extent.

Do I believe that it is wrong, immoral, or unbiblical to be a liberal—no, not at all. I just don’t happen to be one. There are, however, many individuals who I do not regard as being Christians who hold to ultra-liberal views. Those, for example, who deny the deity of Christ are not, in my opinion, Christians.

 

[bapmom]

thats a fair representation, Craig.

I just still find it offensive of you to claim that fundamentalists hold their views out of gross ignorance. I assume also, that we will eventually have to agree to disagree over this.

 

[arkie pastor]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by arkie pastor:
. . . . and when mankind take the liberity to add thier private thoughts and interpitatons to God's word.....then we can clasify them as liberal...

According to your definition supplied here, every Baptist posting to the Baptist Board is a liberal because we all, inevitably, “take the liberity to add [our] private thoughts and interpitatons to” the Bible. Fundamentalists do so based upon the grossest imaginable ignorance; liberals do it based upon many years of highly academic scholarship with a very detailed and comprehensive knowledge of the original languages, the original culture, and 2,000 years of biblical scholarship!

Originally posted by arkie pastor:
This has been transpiring since the early churchs...all one has to do is read Pauls writting to the the churches like Corinthians, Galatia,ect, ect, to see that God defines liberals (those who take liberties which God has not allowed them to.

Here you are not only taking “the liberity to add [your] private thoughts and interpitatons to” the Bible, you are adding thoughts and concepts to the words of the Apostle Paul that were totally foreign to him. Most certainly and incontrovertibly Paul was NOT writing of liberal theology or scholarship; he was writing of contaminating the gospel of Christ with Jewish legalism. In the first century, the conservative Christians were those who believed that the Law of Moses was the word of God and that every Christian was bound by them. The liberal Christians, on the other hand, were those who agreed that the Law of Moses was the word of God, but believed that it had no part in the gospel message. Paul was arrested in Jerusalem for being far too liberal in his theology!

The liberties that you are taking with the Holy Scriptures are enough to make me nauseous! And most certainly you shall answer to God for taking such liberties and handling the most precious word of God in such a manner as thou hast done!

</font>[/QUOTE]Well Craig if you would take the time to study expecially in the letter yo yhe church at corinth, you would find that paul did not admonish the for legalistic matters but bringing thier human liberal thoughts into the church...such as handeling the Lord's supper, Them allowing their liberal thoughts to handle a man that was living in adultry.

If you think Paul was arrested for being liberal..then you have a problem.....Paul was caring out Christ's exact instructions given to him as a apostle of His.....therefore you are in essences saying Christ was a liberal.

As far as my taking liberties with God's word...As I stated I firmly believe that the Bible (God's word is the absolute truths)...mine nor your oppinions in no wise negate this fact. I will be quick to admit that I am human and subject to error (are you?)

You are right that I will have to answer to God on how I handle His word, but my friend that applies to you also... I am not out to impress no man, nor do I get offended of accucations such as you have made against me... For I have to answer to God and God alone for my life.

Let God be true

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Amen, Brother arkie!

 

[Linda64]

Amen Bro. Steve!!

Well said!!