Where is it OK to Witness?

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
Once more I apologize for posting in this forum.

BB this is getting old, you are welcome here as you well know. I enjoy your posts (for the most part) and whether you post here or not is up to you but I feel this is childish.[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I'm sorry. I do follow the threads and I don't always notice what forum I am in since I often have many open at once. I made a commitment at the very beginning of the founding of this forum to stay away and asked others who were branded "liberals" to do the same. This is the second thread where I have violated that commitment.

I'm sorry if this has come across as childish. That is not my intent. I will not mention this again. I may participate in a thread on occasion, but I will try to minimize my participation in this forum since I realize it was created for another purpose.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
]

I'm sorry. I do follow the threads and I don't always notice what forum I am in since I often have many open at once. I made a commitment at the very beginning of the founding of this forum to stay away and asked others who were branded "liberals" to do the same. This is the second thread where I have violated that commitment.

Baptist Believer let me say publicly that I was out of line with my comments. I appreciate your view even if I don't agree with it. You are welcome here.
Murph

 

[Pete]

St. Francis of Assisi
Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.

I've been a night shift cab driver for almost 10 years...so I get to see UP CLOSE all the ones everyone else is scared of They really aint that scary

Pete

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
Well Mike you might read Matthew 28:46. He gave up his omniscient power to become the Lamb of God.! From creator to Lamb!

I don't see how that shows that He surrendered His diety.

I don't understand the desire to freuqent the bars for an opportunity to witness.

Speaking for myself, I don't go to bars specifically to witness. I go there for work (when I'm singing), to watch ballgames, for recreation, to eat, to meet my friends, etc.

Every area of like presents opportunities to reach out to the lost and this is no different.

How often do you "bar preachers" do door to door evangelism?

I don't. I don't think there's anything wrong with going door to door but, for me, I can't do it without feeling like I'm selling something and I don't think pressuring people is any way to spread the Gospel. More importantly, that's not what God has called me to do.

Personally, I find it much better (and more productive) to reach out to people on a personal level.

I would much rather visit with someone in their home when their mind is on the subject at hand not on who is buying the next round.

Generally, when we're at the bar, we play trivia. Traditionally, the losers buy the next round so it's not much of a distraction.

The first thing I would have asked is "what are you doing here?" When I was lost I wxpected Christians to have higher standards than I.

In my experience (both my personal experience before I was a Christian and dealing with non-Christians after I became one), your average non-Christian doesn't really care.

Come on! Get honest! You are there because you want to be in the bar.

Yes. I'm there because I want to be in the bar. That's the first thing you've said that I agree with.

Jesus didn't head down to the Silver dollar Saloon and belly up to the bar

No, He did it at weddings and at people's houses.

Get a life and start studying the word, please! Stop making excuses for living in the World, separate yourselves and do the Lord's work his way.

I have a life and I do study the Bible and the Bible says that we are in the world.

Mike

 

[Johnv]

I just naturally assumed it would be OK to go into a bar to witness. Didn't Jesus go where the sinners were oft times? Well, I've been to sports bars for dinner, not to get drunk, so one can't assume that the local pub is a den of drunks.

However, let's assume it is, for arguement's sake. I noticed one thing about Jesus and his hanging out with the local riff-raff. He never started talking about the kingdom until someone asked him. So I don't think Jesus wants us to walk into the local biker bar and yell "hey, I wanna talk to you guys about Jesus".

Likewise, witnessing on the streetcorners has its bad points. This weekend, I had lunch on Hollywood blvd (I highly recommend Mel's diner around the corner from Grauman's Chinese Theatre. Good stuff!!) and I was approached by someone who wanted to give me a bible tract. I declined and said "no, but thank you." Later, I was approached by another person and also declined similarly. The man told me I needed to think about my soul or I'd end up burning for eternity. That set me off. I told him, how dare he assume that I wasn't a believer, and that such an unloving attitude would send more people to hell, and he'd have to live with that. Indeed, our shoving of Jesus down peoples' throats may end up shoving them to hell, so we need to be careful about how we witness.

 

[Ernie Brazee]

You guys are hilarious

You say door to door evangelism is inefective, then admit that Jesu went to homes of sinners. Duh! May I ask why it has been effective for our church for the past 36 years?

No the ones we call on don't always attend services and we don't win large crowds, but by being faithful and following God's method he gives us the increase.

Do you suppose it is possible that we have exactly what God wants us to have? Oh, no that isn't possible! (tongue in cheek)

I know you will find fault with that but that is okay, we are doing it the way we beleive God wants.

As for bar room evangelism...GOOD LUCK....I'll take the lumps of home visitation. Spending time in bars talking to drunks is not my scene. Yeah I know, people don't go to bars to get drunk, they just go there to socialize because of the pleasant atmosphere. After a few beers witnessing becomes a religious debate, but then for some that is "evangelism."

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
You guys are hilarious

You say door to door evangelism is inefective, then admit that Jesu went to homes of sinners. Duh! May I ask why it has been effective for our church for the past 36 years?

I notice you live in North Dakota. It is likely more effective where you live than in a metropolitan area. I'm glad it has been effective for you and your church. I have done door to door evangelism in Nederland, Brownwood, Brady and Fort Worth, Texas. I have also done door-to-door evangelism in Brainard, Minnesota for a couple of weeks about 15 years ago. Strangely enough, the people in Brainard were much more open to people with a Texas accent going door-to-door than Texas people were at receiving native Texans going door-to-door. I'm guessing it is a cultural thing, but I don't know. Just because it works for your doesn't mean it works for everyone.

No the ones we call on don't always attend services and we don't win large crowds, but by being faithful and following God's method he gives us the increase.

Going door-to-door is *one* of God's methods. There are others.

Do you suppose it is possible that we have exactly what God wants us to have? Oh, no that isn't possible! (tongue in cheek)

No, I think it is likely that your church is doing exactly what it should with evangelism. But please don't make what works for you that standard by which you judge others.

I know you will find fault with that but that is okay, we are doing it the way we beleive God wants.

No fault-finding here. I agree with you.

As for bar room evangelism...GOOD LUCK....I'll take the lumps of home visitation. Spending time in bars talking to drunks is not my scene.

[//QB]

Fair enough.

[QB]Yeah I know, people don't go to bars to get drunk, they just go there to socialize because of the pleasant atmosphere.

Some *do* go to bars to get drunk. Some go to socialize. Many go with mixed motives. Lots of people go because they are lonely and hurting. Christians need to be there.

After a few beers witnessing becomes a religious debate, but then for some that is "evangelism."

To some, but not all.

We discussed this thread in Sunday School this morning and one person mentioned that a small group from our church used to go to "Billy Bob's Texas" in the Fort Worth Stockyards once a week after their Bible study to socialize and meet people. As a result they had the opportunity to share Christ with quite a few over the years. Some became members of our church.

The group (usually 15-20) would go in and order water or sodas (sometimes a beer or a glass of wine) and spend about an hour or two meeting people. Everyone was accountable to one another and there were never any incidents.

Now 20 people is a large number to take into your local bar, but Billy Bob's is a *huge* place (it has been advertised as the "world's largest honky-tonk). If someone undertakes this ministry because of this discussion, it is a very good idea to go in pairs or with a small group.

Thanks for your thoughts Brother Ernie!

 

[redwhitenblue]

I grew up in churches who consistantly did door to door evangelism. Unless you have a box full of food for the family and are ready to lend a helping hand in whatever task they are needing done and you go at a time when you know for a fact that their children aren't rusing to get to the next cheerleading, baseball or football practice or you know your not interfering with any specific family time or relaxation time then normally door to door is pretty much long gone now. Yeah there are still churches who beat the living daylights out of it and there are still kind families who will graciously accept visitors but for the most part people generally get quite peeved by this type of thing. In this day in age even as a christian there's no way I'd let anyone past my doorstep who I don't know.

Ya know, I'm not going to try denying that I don't like to go to a bar and sit down...of course I do, and honestly I feel there's nothing to deny about it. I don't believe there is anything wrong with it and yes I have seen where many people can make good relationships by sitting down with someone else and just chatting about how their life is going and they don't feel like a heel because they didn't get the chance to clean their house prior to recieving unexpected visitors....yeah Jesus did it, but keep in mind that those days were much different from this day in age. It's not a matter of not being able to find sinners anyplace else than a bar, if I come into contact with someone outside a bar I won't ingore the chance to share Jesus just because I'm not in the bar scene, I just happen to believe that you won't have a bad testimony if your sharing Jesus in a bar.

karen

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
You guys are hilarious

You say door to door evangelism is inefective, then admit that Jesu went to homes of sinners.

Two different things. Jesus went to people's homes because he wanted to establish a relationship with them.

What you're talking about is no different than the old Fuller Brush Man (kids, ask your grandparents).

I know you will find fault with that but that is okay, we are doing it the way we beleive God wants.

I don't think anyone is faulting you for going door to door. I think the point here is just because God's called you to do something a certain way, doesn't mean that He hasn't called someone else to do it a different way.

Spending time in bars talking to drunks is not my scene. Yeah I know, people don't go to bars to get drunk, they just go there to socialize because of the pleasant atmosphere. After a few beers witnessing becomes a religious debate, but then for some that is "evangelism."

Ernie, for someone who doesn't go to bars, you sure have a lot of ideas about what goes on there.

For the hundredth time, not every one in a bar is drunk or necessarily even drinking.

The truth is, many times, it is a pleasant atmosphere, especially if the bar has a deck like many of the bars I hang out in.

"After a few beers, witnessing becomes a religious debate". I wouldn't know.I don't try to debate people, but answering people's questions or objections to Chistianity is witnessing.

Mike

[ September 23, 2002, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Smoke_Eater:

The truth is, many times, it is a pleasant atmosphere, especially if the bar has a deck like many of the bars I hang out in.

Doesn't the Bible say to not be conformed to the world but to be transformed?
Murph

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Doesn't the Bible say to not be conformed to the world but to be transformed?

Yes.

Mike

 

[M Wickens]

In England a "bar" can range from a cafe like place with a bar for those who want to drink and then the pub-like places and nightclubs. (In England the term bar is kind of outdated and rarely used anyway.)

However, historically those I find witnessing in bars are not sitting with the people and having a drink with them but standing on tables, proclaiming the Gospel and inviting them "OUT" of the bars and into a Gospel service. In many cases when they were not effective they were physically thrown out of the bar.

Perhaps some of the urgency is gone from that ministry and a danger is there for the "Christian" as they do not see the need to get the sinners "OUT" of the bar any more.

Christians lower standards to be accepted by the world with the intention of sharing the Gospel with them but that is not the Biblical way. We ought to boldly tell it how it is and if people don't like it then that is there problem. THe Church is so close to the world in many respects now that many unsaved people just don't see the difference between themselves and the so called Christians witnessing to them.

Plus you have the added difficulty of people not being completely themselves due to the drink and then peer pressure.

If someone wants to witness in a bar or whatever with the intention of getting them out and does not sit there all buddy-buddy with them but rather stands and proclaims God's saving grace then great. If it means doing what they do and being the way they are then it is wrong.

 

[redwhitenblue]

Seeing the fact that I see no wrong in being in a bar in the first place I have no reason to "get the sinners" out. My main objective is not to intentionally go in and share Jesus every hour on the hour with a drunken person but to hang out with a friend or two, relax and chat a bit.

Developing a good relationship with someone else so they actually see who you are as a person and a follower of Jesus and in doing so I have found others to be more understanding of the fact that I know I am not "better" than they are but I have found happiness in something better...it's not me who is better, it's Jesus in me and how I treat them is how they will know that. A lot of folks will go to a bar for a drink to get away from stress of work, home or other things..it's their chill time to kick back and just simply have fun and sometimes those same people are very open to talking deeper about their lives and what they want in life which is a perfect time to talk about what I want out of life and that leads right into sharing God's love and work in my life...WHEN and IF the question comes up as to why I'm a christian and in a bar I explain that being a christian means having a personal love relationship with Jesus and that I don't believe that drinking is wrong thus I don't believe being there is wrong.....cool thing is not one person has asked me yet why I'm there.

Karen

 

[Ernie Brazee]

...and some of you ..... edited to remove nasty remarks..... believe that Jesus would accompany you the local bar?

1John 2:15
1Corinthians 6:20
2Corinthians 6:14-18
1Thessalonians 5:22

[ September 24, 2002, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[Optional]

Ernie,
So you're saying Jesus never went into a "worldly" place? Give me a break please with this ERV (Ernie's Revised Version) of the Bible.
I don't drink - never have. The wife takes an occasional sip of wine. I don't hang out in bars. However, the occasional foray for soul-winning purposes is clearly scriptural even if you don't like what you read.
It seems you have set yourself up as judge of people's motives. I'll tell you what, Ernie, I'd follow someone into a whorehouse if I thought I had a shot at witnessing for real. Did not Jesus take the time to cast 7 demons from a certain woman that ended up following Him? Most of the people I'm talking about don't carry anywhere near that burden. I can be "in the world" without being "of the world". You can't? Then lock yourself in and tend to your own garden. If a Christian wants to know why he saw me going into a bar, all he/she has to do is ask me to my face. I'll be glad to explain it to them. If a Christian wants to go behind my back and gossip and question my motives for others - that's their sin, not mine.
Now did Jesus go "into the world" without becoming "of the world"? As His children, we're allowed and strong enough to do the same.

BTW, going door to door, don't you meet the same people I do? Unsaved sinners?

 

[Johnv]

I would no more think a person trying to witness to me in a bar is any more acceptible than a person trying to witness to me in the health club steam room. Believe it or not, it's happenned. I told the guy this probably wasn't the best place

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by redwhitenblue:
Seeing the fact that I see no wrong in being in a bar in the first place I have no reason to "get the sinners" out.

^Sounds alot like the book of Judges "there was no king and everyone did what seemed good to them" or something like that.

.....cool thing is not one person has asked me yet why I'm there.

Peter said we were to be strange and peculiar, I believe no one has asked because you look to much like them to be considered any different.
Murph

Karen

 

[Vasco]

MARK 2:15-17
Jesus sat with who? sinners, people like us.. if it was good for Him it is good for us to
nothing wrong with preaching to people who need it most
God bless
edmundo

 

[redwhitenblue]

Seeing that Jesus is everywhere, Jesus is in the bar even when I'm not. Being "set apart"? It's amazing how some christians interpret that when so many unsaved that I know see me as different for not judging or disrespecting them but hanging out with them and talking to them one on one and loving them.

Karen

 

[Abiyah]

For me to witness in a bar would be truly
laughable. Why? It would be like putting a
toy poodle in a cage with a dozen St.
Bernards. I have been in a bar once--at 17,
to get change for the bus which was coming
down Grand Avenue at great speed, and I was
desparate to get home before dark in St. Louis.
I had a hard time staying there long enough to
get the change. It just is not my environment.

But I have heard of others who go there to
witness. More power to them, if they can
maintain their believer's dignity and do it.

I also know (knew--he is dead now) a man
who was so drunk he could hardly walk when
he came to the Lord. I heard that he was
totally sober by the time the process was over.

I also knew a man who owned a bar which some
people people wanted for a church building.
They prayed, he came to their street meeting
and gave his heart to the Lord, and offered
them his bar for services. He had no idea they
were praying that way until afterward. He
closed the bar for all business, and it became a
church.

But okay. I know what a steamroom is. What is
wrong with witnessing there?

[ September 25, 2002, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]