Where is Spirit Baptism in the Bible?

[Iconoclast]

again you try and dictate to me what I believe;

What is wrong with your understanding of that statement Icon?

The author of the statement (whoever it may be) states that Paul is a mature believer very conscious of the indwelling sin within him. He sees himself before the law as the perfect example of weakness and inconsistency (to the law--sin), which defines the carnal Christian.
Remember: He is the mature Christian who has indwelling sin within him, has a new nature, and therefore is carnal. This is what he believes--old nature/new nature = carnal.
You don't believe this. He does. Don't tell me otherwise. It is here in black and white. I can read it for myself.

Don't post what you don't believe, then try to convince us that you do believe it when you don't. It doesn't and won't work.

So you knew what I claimed to believe even back then.....repent.

Quote:by DHK
Don't post what you don't believe, then try to convince us that you do believe it when you don't. It doesn't and won't work

.

I know for a fact that is the complete opposite of what this Pastor believes. Your lack of reading comprehension is only trumped by your stubborn refusal when I point you to the solution...you not only reject it, but double down on your error

So now you are stating that the Apostle Paul is a carnal Christian...wonderful DHK... I would not believe this if I did not see it with my own eyes

back on 7/2/14

QuoteHK
You have conveniently ignored Romans 7:24,25

.

This is a lie. You failing to see the answer is not me ignoring anything

 

[The Biblicist]

You are mistaken in this...the command is to live as who you are...having put off.....having put on....live accordingly.

You are ignoring exegetical facts simply to justify your dogma. Look at the verbs - they are found in the IMPERATIVE MODE. These are commands. If your interpretation were correct it would be found in the INDICATIVE MODE which declares a statement of fact. Your interpretation flies in the face of the exegetical facts. To command what is impossible to obey is absurd. If your interpretation were correct it would call for only the indicative mode. You do like most, whose doctrine cannot harmonize with the Biblical facts, you simply ignore the Biblical facts and repeat your dogma. Also, notice that your arguments that follow have their basis in your own doctrine rather than in the Biblical text. Hence, circular reasoning, as you first assume your position and then argue from that position.

 

[Iconoclast]

You are ignoring exegetical facts simply to justify your dogma. Look at the verbs - they are found in the IMPERATIVE MODE. These are commands. If your interpretation were correct it would be found in the INDICATIVE MODE which declares a statement of fact. Your interpretation flies in the face of the exegetical facts. To command what is impossible to obey is absurd. If your interpretation were correct it would call for only the indicative mode. You do like most, whose doctrine cannot harmonize with the Biblical facts, you simply ignore the Biblical facts and repeat your dogma. Also, notice that your arguments that follow have their basis in your own doctrine rather than in the Biblical text. Hence, circular reasoning, as you first assume your position and then argue from that position.

col3
He was conscious of the daily need to mortify sin....notice if was the flesh, the motions of sin in his members...here he says the same thing I am hammering away at you with.....take your time...read this slowly 5 or 6 times in a row;


5 Put to death, then, your members that [are] upon the earth -- whoredom, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and the covetousness, which is idolatry --

6 because of which things cometh the anger of God upon the sons of the disobedience,

7 in which also ye -- ye did walk once, when ye lived in them;

8 but now put off, even ye, the whole -- anger, wrath, malice, evil-speaking, filthy talking -- out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, having put off the old man with his practices,



10 and having put on the new, which is renewed in regard to knowledge, after the image of Him who did create him;


the old man..once again is dead...the new man...IS ACTIVE,made alive by God.

 

[Iconoclast]

06-15-2014, 01:25 PM
Iconoclast's Avatar Iconoclast Iconoclast is online now
here is another very clear post
Repent DHK.....
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2118430#post2118430
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul is speaking of Himself as a Christian in Romans 7....very clearly...

He describes the struggle to mortify remaining corruption.....which he expands in chapter 8

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
the unsaved do not delight in the law of God

 

[The Biblicist]

There is not two men in one person. {he is not a spiritual schizophrenic.}

First, "schizophenic" is not about "two men in one person" but two different personality expressions in one man. Second, Romans 7:15-21 clearly defines TWO different expressions in one person that are contrary to each other. This is self-evident to anyone who can read English.

It looks like only one poster tries to do this...saying the old man is still alive.

There are so many problems with this statement it is hard to know where to begin to address the errors. First, the "old man" is SPIRITUALLY DEAD and never alive. Second, you should know that the doctrine of justification is POSITIONAL and LEGALLY declarative and based upon IMPUTATION whereas the new birth is PERSONAL and based upon IMPARTATION. Thus we have LEGALLY have died (Rom. 7:1-5), buried and risen with Christ as his life and death are IMPUTED legally to us. Hence, we are in heaven "in Christ" LEGALLY and POSITIONALLY but not in regard to our own person.

Third, you fail to grasp that the body and soul has not been regenerated and thus our WHOLE MAN is not New! This is your primary problem you ignore. The unregenerated aspect of human nature is still the "OLD" and thus remnants of the "OLD MAN" and it is precisely in this "OLD" and unregenerated remnant that Paul says "the law of sin" actually and literally "dwells" and therefore this combination is referred to as "the flesh" which we are COMMANDED to "put off" and to "mortify"! Here is the other area you are misinformed, wrong and simply ignore. The INDICATIVE MODE would be necessary to convey your position but Paul uses the IMPERATIVE MODE thus demanding the born again person has not put off the old man in the past as a completed permenant one time action as you claim. You are simply wrong and you have, up to this point, NO RESPONSE, that I have yet to read.

 

[The Biblicist]

col3
He was conscious of the daily need to mortify sin....notice if was the flesh, the motions of sin in his members...here he says the same thing I am hammering away at you with.....take your time...read this slowly 5 or 6 times in a row;


5 Put to death, then, your members that [are] upon the earth -- whoredom, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and the covetousness, which is idolatry --

6 because of which things cometh the anger of God upon the sons of the disobedience,

7 in which also ye -- ye did walk once, when ye lived in them;

8 but now put off, even ye, the whole -- anger, wrath, malice, evil-speaking, filthy talking -- out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, having put off the old man with his practices,



10 and having put on the new, which is renewed in regard to knowledge, after the image of Him who did create him;


the old man..once again is dead...the new man...IS ACTIVE,made alive by God.

Both are true and both are clearly stated. You accept one and reject the other. The imperative mode command us to "put off" the old man. You presume that our WHOLE MAN has been made new and that is simply not true. We literally have aspects of our "OLD MAN" with us and will have it with us until our WHOLE PERSON is made new (glorification).

We have through JUSTIFICATION LEGALLY died to sin. Romans 7:7 and the word "freed" is the same identical Greek term that has been used since Roman 3:24 for JUSTIFIED and our LEGAL death to sin. You have never responded to this exegetical fact, just as you have never responded to the exegetical fact of the imperative mode.

All error is a MIXTURE of truth and error and you simply refuse to address the exegetical evidence that exposes your half truth. You simply refuse to acknowledge the truth that your WHOLE PERSON has not been made "new" and never will be made "new" until glorification. Hence, that aspect of you that has not been made "new" is guess what? OLD! It is remnants of the "old man" just as Paul describes which is the seat of the "law of sin" which "dwells" in the body of Paul and YOU!

 

[The Biblicist]

He describes the struggle to mortify remaining corruption.

"remaining corruption" of what? You mean you admit that YOUR WHOLE PERSON is not the "new man"? You mean you admit that the "remaining corruption" is not "the new man"? Therefore, it is "remaining" from what man? New or Old? It can't be of the "new" and if not of the "new" what other source or alternative do you have for it to be "remaining" from????

 

[DHK]

06-15-2014, 01:25 PM
Iconoclast's Avatar Iconoclast Iconoclast is online now
here is another very clear post
Repent DHK.....
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2118430#post2118430
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul is speaking of Himself as a Christian in Romans 7....very clearly...

He describes the struggle to mortify remaining corruption.....which he expands in chapter 8

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
the unsaved do not delight in the law of God

Alright, I checked the thread and reread it. You are right. I got your posts mixed up with another.
With that in mind, how can you say that Paul does not have an old nature as a saved man when it is so clear he is describing the conflict of the two natures in him:

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Sin dwell sin in me. That is the "sin principle," commonly referred to as the "sin nature."

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
--There is no good thing in me. What is in me? My old nature, of course! Paul is describing a battle.

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
--Sin (the sin principle/the old nature) dwells in me. I do wrong because I give into it. There is a battle that rages on within me.

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
If it is only the new nature that abides within, why does Paul so clearly state that evil is present.

The answers to these questions are given in the last two verses (24,25).
This is a battle between the two natures of Paul as a believer. It is very clearly set forth here. The old man/old nature has not been eradicated.