Where is the IFB Sytematic Theology?

[Luke2427]

Do IFB's HAVE a systematic theology?

Or do they lean on Protestant works?

I am certain that in their "seminaries" they teach terms like hypostasis, infralapsarianism, etc...

But how do those that believe they go all the way back to John the Baptist (or wherever they think they start) having never been a part of the "catholic" or Protestant churches- how do they justify utilizing our terms and our doctrines that we hammered out?

Since Athanasius was "catholic" how do they justify calling themselves TRINITarian?

Do they get to use our term "Trinity"? Why?

Do they get to believe in hypostasis since WE worked that out and they are not part of US?

Shouldn't they have their OWN theologians in history who worked these things out rather than leaning almost fully on OURS?

By US and WE and OURS I am referring to the Historic Christian Faith as traced back through history down through the Creeds and to the Apostles.

They claim (not all of them, I know) that they were never part of US.

They have a steady line of mysterious, historically invisible BAPTISTS- but they use our stuff and depend almost FULLY upon our blood, sweat and tears to give them their doctrines (the Trinity for example).

 

[Luke2427]

Was Athanasius a BAPTIST and the 300 plus bishops that met to define the Trinity?

Where are the IFB churches that hammered this out and how did they come to call their doctrine the same thing we who are member of the Historic Christian Faith.

 

[John of Japan]

Independent Baptist typically use well-known Baptist systematic theologies. Big surprise! I've had sys. theo. classes that used Strong's Systematic Theology and Christian Theology by Millard Erickson. Both are good. And at Maranatha Baptist Graduate School we were required to read at least one more for each semester of sys. theo., so I've read my share of non-Baptists. As for one specifically by an independent Baptist, that would be Rolland McCune's A Systematic Theology of Biblical Christianity, of Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary.

As for our history, we are squarely set in the midst of evangelicalism, as the new book Four Views on the Spectrum of Evangelicalism proves.

And that's all I'll say on this thread, because if this doesn't satisfy Luke, there's nothing more to say.

 

[Luke2427]

Independent Baptist typically use well-known Baptist systematic theologies. Big surprise! I've had sys. theo. classes that used Strong's Systematic Theology and Christian Theology by Millard Erickson. Both are good. And at Maranatha Baptist Graduate School we were required to read at least one more for each semester of sys. theo., so I've read my share of non-Baptists. As for one specifically by an independent Baptist, that would be Rolland McCune's A Systematic Theology of Biblical Christianity, of Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary.

As for our history, we are squarely set in the midst of evangelicalism, as the new book Four Views on the Spectrum of Evangelicalism proves.

And that's all I'll say on this thread, because if this doesn't satisfy Luke, there's nothing more to say.

That is very helpful but it really doesn't answer MOST of the questions.

So it's illogical to purport that it should satisfy me.

Do you believe your roots have nothing to do with Protestantism?

Do you believe your heritage bypasses Protestantism?

Do you believe that baptists run through history unconnected to the catholic church all the way back to the NT?

Do you believe Athanasias was a Baptist?

If not, how do you justify using our terms and teaching doctrines which we have hammered out for you?

Shouldn't you have your own theology that is totally separate from us where you guys have worked these things out without our aid????

 

[JesusFan]

Independent Baptist typically use well-known Baptist systematic theologies. Big surprise! I've had sys. theo. classes that used Strong's Systematic Theology and Christian Theology by Millard Erickson. Both are good. And at Maranatha Baptist Graduate School we were required to read at least one more for each semester of sys. theo., so I've read my share of non-Baptists. As for one specifically by an independent Baptist, that would be Rolland McCune's A Systematic Theology of Biblical Christianity, of Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary.

As for our history, we are squarely set in the midst of evangelicalism, as the new book Four Views on the Spectrum of Evangelicalism proves.

And that's all I'll say on this thread, because if this doesn't satisfy Luke, there's nothing more to say.

Would you say that the IFB pretty much develop/hold same type of Theology as "Evangelical" baptists, as regarding areas of Sotierology/eschatology/Bibliogy etc?

 

[JesusFan]

That is very helpful but it really doesn't answer MOST of the questions.

So it's illogical to purport that it should satisfy me.

Do you believe your roots have nothing to do with Protestantism?

Do you believe your heritage bypasses Protestantism?

Do you believe that baptists run through history unconnected to the catholic church all the way back to the NT?

Do you believe Athanasias was a Baptist?

If not, how do you justify using our terms and teaching doctrines which we have hammered out for you?

Shouldn't you have your own theology that is totally separate from us where you guys have worked these things out without our aid????

Question to you Luke..

isn't there a "Christian Theology" that would be made up of part baptists/methodists/Reformed/ etc?

That we baptists can hold distinctive Theologies on our own, but need to realise that other Christians groups also have part of the total Christian theology map too?

 

[Luke2427]

Question to you Luke..

isn't there a "Christian Theology" that would be made up of part baptists/methodists/Reformed/ etc?

That we baptists can hold distinctive Theologies on our own, but need to realise that other Christians groups also have part of the total Christian theology map too?

Certainly.

But I am addressing people who think their heritage is totally separate from Protestantism and Catholicism.

I am addressing people who think there was this line of baptistic forefathers who were never in the RCC in their whole history and that they are separate from Augutine and Athanasias and basically ALL the church fathers of the second and third century.

I am trying to figure out how they justify getting MOST, and I mean the VAST majority of what they believe from US- the Historic Christian Faith.

 

[JesusFan]

Certainly.

But I am addressing people who think their heritage is totally separate from Protestantism and Catholicism.

I am addressing people who think there was this line of baptistic forefathers who were never in the RCC in their whole history and that they are separate from Augutine and Athanasias and basically ALL the church fathers of the second and third century.

I am trying to figure out how they justify getting MOST, and I mean the VAST majority of what they believe from US- the Historic Christian Faith.

Know that DHK holds that there was a "First baptist Church of jerusalem", but is there ANY proof of there being baptists before Anabaptists movement?

Don't "baptists" as a while, regardless if reformed/free will etc hold to 'core essentials" doctrinal beliefs?

 

[Luke2427]

Know that DHK holds that there was a "First baptist Church of jerusalem", but is there ANY proof of there being baptists before Anabaptists movement?

Don't "baptists" as a while, regardless if reformed/free will etc hold to 'core essentials" doctrinal beliefs?

Yep. And that's my point.

They don't get to say that they were totally separate from the Historic Christian Faith ( which included Christianity within the ranks of RCC and Protestantism) and then at the same time use our doctrines that we bled over.

they don't get to say, "I AM OF A BAPTIST LINE THAT GOES BACK TO THE NT SEPARATE FROM EVERY BODY WHO HAS EVER HELD THE TITLE CATHOLIC OR PROTESTANT!!!!" and then use our doctrines and the titles of our doctrines like TRINITY.

If you are separate from us- come up with your own names for your doctrines and don't have your theolgians reference Athanasias and others of OUR ranks who bled for these titles to give them to the Historic Christian Faith of which you yourself say you are not a part.

 

[JesusFan]

Yep. And that's my point.

They don't get to say that they were totally separate from the Historic Christian Faith ( which included Christianity within the ranks of RCC and Protestantism) and then at the same time use our doctrines that we bled over.

they don't get to say, "I AM OF A BAPTIST LINE THAT GOES BACK TO THE NT SEPARATE FROM EVERY BODY WHO HAS EVER HELD THE TITLE CATHOLIC OR PROTESTANT!!!!" and then use our doctrines and the titles of our doctrines like TRINITY.

If you are separate from us- come up with your own names for your doctrines and don't have your theolgians reference Athanasias and others of OUR ranks who bled for these titles to give them to the Historic Christian Faith of which you yourself say you are not a part.

Could that be reason why some of them are strictly KJV, while others hold to a strict seperation from even other baptists/Christians?

That they would use KJV as THE source for all of their theology, while holding that other baptists have 'compromised" beliefs and theology?

 

[John of Japan]

Would you say that the IFB pretty much develop/hold same type of Theology as "Evangelical" baptists, as regarding areas of Sotierology/eschatology/Bibliogy etc?

Very similar theology. We study out of the same textbooks in our seminaries in most cases.

Having said that, Dallas TS has had a great influence in IFB circles: verbal-plenary inspiration, dispensationalism, pre-trib pre-mil, etc. In fact, Dallas was fundamentalist back in the day, though perhaps not today. In fact, Robert Lightner was a Dallas prof when he wrote his excellent Neo Evangelicalism in 1969.

The main difference in IFB and evangelical theology lies in the fundamentalist doctrine of ecclesiastical separation.

 

[John of Japan]

Do you believe your roots have nothing to do with Protestantism?

No.

Do you believe your heritage bypasses Protestantism?

No.

Do you believe that baptists run through history unconnected to the catholic church all the way back to the NT?

No, but evangelicalism does.

Do you believe Athanasias was a Baptist?

No

Shouldn't you have your own theology that is totally separate from us where you guys have worked these things out without our aid????

No.

You appear to be mixed up. You are discussing Landmarkism, not the IFB movement.

 

[Luke2427]

No.
No.
No, but evangelicalism does.
No

No.

You appear to be mixed up. You are discussing Landmarkism, not the IFB movement.

No, John. I am glad that you understand that your roots come out of Catholicism.

Bob Jones is one of the more reputable institutions of IFB so I figured you had better sense than to beleive such nonsense as is otherwise purported.

But DHK is IFB.

Robert Snow is IFB.

Winman is IFB.

These are all people who believe there is an unbroken line all the way back to the NT of baptists which are totally unconnected to anything Protestant of Catholic.

These people hold to the ideas I am challenging.

 

[JesusFan]

Very similar theology. We study out of the same textbooks in our seminaries in most cases.

Having said that, Dallas TS has had a great influence in IFB circles: verbal-plenary inspiration, dispensationalism, pre-trib pre-mil, etc. In fact, Dallas was fundamentalist back in the day, though perhaps not today. In fact, Robert Lightner was a Dallas prof when he wrote his excellent Neo Evangelicalism in 1969.

The main difference in IFB and evangelical theology lies in the fundamentalist doctrine of ecclesiastical separation.

Think that when discussing IBF/Fundamentalists here, that we will need to specify which 'camp" they belong to ...

Just as not ALL charasmatics are holding same theology, there would be KJVO, some holding to sperating from all others, some JUST sperate from "churches" still working with individuals etc!

 

[John of Japan]

Think that when discussing IBF/Fundamentalists here, that we will need to specify which 'camp" they belong to ...

Just as not ALL charasmatics are holding same theology, there would be KJVO, some holding to sperating from all others, some JUST sperate from "churches" still working with individuals etc!

We are best identified with what schools we went to. I went to BJU, Tennessee Temple (BA), Temple Baptist Seminary and Maranatha Baptist Graduate School (MA), which is now a seminary. Add all of that to John R. Rice's Christo-centric theology and you have what I am.

 

[exscentric]

Maybe just nit picking but we all stand on the Bible and that is why we have lots of similarities and it is error to believe all Indep. Baptists believe in apostolic succession.

Prot. came out of the Roman church and rejected most of that - though we probably have some influence from there.

It is my impression that those that do hold to a baptist thread throughout the ages apart from the Roman line.

 

[hillclimber1]

No, John. I am glad that you understand that your roots come out of Catholicism.

Bob Jones is one of the more reputable institutions of IFB so I figured you had better sense than to beleive such nonsense as is otherwise purported.

But DHK is IFB.

Robert Snow is IFB.

Winman is IFB.

These are all people who believe there is an unbroken line all the way back to the NT of baptists which are totally unconnected to anything Protestant of Catholic.

These people hold to the ideas I am challenging.

Would you please state what IFB stands for? I know it's not the Iowa Farm Bureau. Maybe Independant Facebook Baptists, or Indecent Fallen Bookreaders? Not even google knows.

 

[exscentric]

IFB = Independent Fundamental Baptist.

 

[Luke2427]

Would you please state what IFB stands for? I know it's not the Iowa Farm Bureau. Maybe Independant Facebook Baptists, or Indecent Fallen Bookreaders? Not even google knows.

That's funny.:smilewinkgrin:

Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

[seekingthetruth]

Luke

I am IFB, and I am a Christian saved by Grace.

Why do you think I am the enemy?

John the cultist