Where is this other Jewish Calendar?

[JonC]

Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

Do you think the sabbath above on the first day of the seventh month had a preparation day preceding it?

IMHO preparation day does not necessarily mean the day before the seventh day of the week?

I believe it was the preparation day preceding the holy convocation day of the fifteenth of the month Nisan a high sabbath.

I also believe it was the preperation day (14th) followed by the 15th, and the 15th was a Sabbath (7 th day of the week) which was also a "high day" and the "Passover".

Scripture is fairly clear that the crucifixion was on a Friday. Before Friday would have Jesus rising on a day other than the 3rd day. And we know He rose on the 1st day of the week.


The question becomes whether we believe that the Gospels record 1st century historical events or were referencing the OT to provide a timeline.

My opinion is that the Gospels recorded what occurred (what they observed) in the 1st century AD and that the crucifixion occurred at a moment in history (a real historical event).

The opposing view is that the Gospel accounts ignored 1st century historical events, what was actually occurring in and around Jerusalem, and instead used the OT as a type of code to date the events surrounding the crucifixion.

 

[37818]

Scripture is fairly clear that the crucifixion was on a Friday.

This is indeed the most common [mis]interpretation.
You obviously seem to be unable to understand why the Friday crucifixion is impossible.

 

[37818]

I also believe it was the preperation day (14th) followed by the 15th, and the 15th was a Sabbath (7 th day of the week) which was also a "high day" and the "Passover".

Scripture is fairly clear that the crucifixion was on a Friday. Before Friday would have Jesus rising on a day other than the 3rd day. And we know He rose on the 1st day of the week.


The question becomes whether we believe that the Gospels record 1st century historical events or were referencing the OT to provide a timeline.

My opinion is that the Gospels recorded what occurred (what they observed) in the 1st century AD and that the crucifixion occurred at a moment in history (a real historical event).

The opposing view is that the Gospel accounts ignored 1st century historical events, what was actually occurring in and around Jerusalem, and instead used the OT as a type of code to date the events surrounding the crucifixion.

Claiming 1st century historical events without any actual anything.

 

[JonC]

Claiming 1st century historical events without any actual anything.

Except 1st century documentation of those events (three from Jesus' time and 1 from about 50 years later). I already posted those for you. You ignored all of those.

You chose then to dismiss history. That is fine. Many Christians cling to their own understanding. Even though you make the crucifixion a mythology (an event outside of human history) you still believe the gospel message. That is all that ultimately matters.

 

[JonC]

This is indeed the most common [mis]interpretation.
You obviously seem to be unable to understand why the Friday crucifixion is impossible.

There is no reason a Friday crucifixion is impossible. In fact, IF Jesus arose on the 3rd day then it had to be Friday (a Thurdsay crucifixion would be Jesus rising on the 4th day).

 

[37818]

There is no reason a Friday crucifixion is impossible.

You have no clue.

But we do agree Christ rose on the third day being the first day of the week.

 

[37818]

Except 1st century documentation of those events (three from Jesus' time and 1 from about 50 years later). I already posted those for you. You ignored all of those.

Claims without substance.

 

[JonC]

@37818

If you are truly open to truth and want to decide based on facts, then perhaps Harold Hoehner's Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ will be useful. He doesn't offer a date, but you can read about 1st century Jewish practices and decide for yourself. Pay attention to the two main ways they reckoned the Biblical calendar in the 1st century.


If you want historical documentation about the differences between Galilean and Judean times then study the Mishnah. You will find several references, and from the 1st century.

 

[JonC]

You have no clue.

But we do agree Christ rose on the third day being the first day of the week.

Yes, I do.

Scripture is clear that Jesus rose on the third day.

1st century documents are clear that there were differences between the two main Jewish sects in terms of reckoning the calendar (the dates are the same, but reckoning the dates are not). This is a matter of historical records.

You are clueless about 1st century events. And that is fine. You can be ignorant of history, you can cling to myth, and still believe the gospel.

 

[37818]

6 days before a Friday is a Saturday, aka a Sabbath.

John 12:2, . . . they made him a supper; and Martha served: . . .
Was not the Sabbath.

 

[JonC]

Claims without substance.

False accusation (bearing a false witness).

I gave 1st century accounts. I gave then to you more than once. That is substance. That is history.

Those historical facts do not prove a 33AD date. But they prove it very likely.

You simply chose to ignore history and create a mythological timeline.

 

[JonC]

6 days before a Friday is a Saturday, aka a Sabbath.

John 12:2, . . . they made him a supper; and Martha served: . . .
Was not the Sabbath.

You do not know that.

 

[37818]

False accusation (bearing a false witness).

I gave 1st century accounts.

You made claims.

Your claims versus our Bible.

 

[JonC]

You made claims.

Your claims versus our Bible.

No. Not versus. I believe the Bible is true. Unlike you I believe that the crucifixion occurred at a moment in history (in actual history).

I cannot provide a definitive date because to do so is to make Christianity a mythology. But I can hold an opinion on a probable date that agrees with the Bible AND history.

When you pit the Bible against facts you make the Bible a fiction. You are wrong because Scripture is true, those are real events, and they occurred on our planet (Earth) at a time in real history.

 

[37818]

You do not know that.

Yes I do. Any Bible believer can read John 12:2 and it's context. . . . they made him a supper; and Martha served: . . .

 

[JonC]

Yes I do. Any Bible believer can read John 12:2 and it's context. . . . they made him a supper; and Martha served: . . .

But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here. But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire compassion, and not a sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbat.

So you deny that the Disciples harvested grain on the Sabbath?????

Your denial of that passage in Matthew doesn't really matter.

Jews made and served supper on the Sabbath. They didn't cook or harvest. The practice was to cook or have ready the food on the day prior and make the make the meal on the Sabbath. Women still served the meal to the men on the Sabbath.


Man, you are grasping at straws to keep your mythology alive.

 

[JonC]

Again, the answer to this thread is that there were several Hebrew Calendars.

There was the Biblical Hebrew Calendar. This had several changes. Under this category we had the Judean and Galilean Hebrew Calendars (different reckonings). All of these were ad hoc calendars.

There was the Talmudic Hebrew Calendar. This fairly standardized the calendar about 60 years after the destruction of the Temple. Messengers were still used, but ceremonially.

Then there was the Post-Talmudic Hebrew Calendar. This calendar calculated lunar cycles.

Anybody studying ancient dates should be aware of these calendars. This is very basic.

 

[37818]

I cannot provide a definitive date because to do so is to make Christianity a mythology.

So you believe.

I am persuaded there is a an actual knowable date.
Nisan 15th. Julian date Thursday April 6, 30 AD.

Based on John 12:1-2 and Mark 14:12, a Friday is not possible.

Based on Luke 24:20-21, a Wednesday is not possible.

 

[37818]

. . . is that there were several Hebrew Calendars.

Yes. For different proposed years. Only one can be correct.

 

[JonC]

So you believe.

I am persuaded there is a an actual knowable date.
Nisan 15th. Julian date Thursday April 6, 30 AD.

Based on John 12:1-2 and Mark 14:12, a Friday is not possible.

Based on Luke 24:20-21, a Wednesday is not possible.

I know we can't because we cannot calculate weather conditions.

You are suggesting the Biblical Hebrew Calendar is wrong, but you don't know that. It is correlating the Biblical Hebrew Calendar to the Julian Calendar that can't be factually known. The reason is all we can do is calculate lunar cycles and the Biblical Hebrew Calendar didn't.

It's simply the best we have.


We can assume a clear night (we have to....but it's still an assumption).

Based on John 12:1-2 and Mark 14:12 it could have been a Friday. If Jesus really arose on the 3rd day AND that day was the 1st day of the week then it had to be a Friday.

Based on the calculated calendar the only date that works is 33 AD.