Where Was Baptism? The Missing Sacrament

[percho]

Brother Van,

If you wish to retire this conversation, that is fine. However, before doing so, I must address your assertion that my position is a fiction.

I believe the central issue is whether the Old Testament saints were truly saved or merely awaiting salvation.

Scripture says Abraham's faith was counted for righteousness. David spoke of the blessedness of the man whose sins are forgiven. These were not future promises of righteousness and forgiveness, but present realities.

The reason I believe the Old Testament saints were united with Christ is simple: no one has ever been saved apart from Christ. If they were truly justified, forgiven, reconciled to God, and accepted by faith, then Christ was already the basis of that salvation. The cross had not yet occurred in history, but its fulfillment was certain in the purpose of God.

Therefore, I do not see this as "time travel." I see it as the one sacrifice of Christ saving all who believe, whether they lived before the cross or after it.

For that reason, I continue to see one Savior, one sacrifice, one salvation, and one redeemed people, not two classes of the saved, one united with Christ and one merely awaiting union with Him.

Yours in Him,

Tony

I still have to ask. BTW I'm sorry I want leave it alone.

From Hebrews 11:13 - according to faith died all these. They are dead in faith.

From Gal 4:5 that those under law he may redeem, - What law caused the need to be redeemed? Thou shall eat of it, Adam was under law. Transgression of that law was sin which brought forth death. After he ate he was under sin and death. Adam
Gal 3:22 YLT but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, --- everybody, not just Israel. Everybody is under law sin and death.

Now verse 23;

And before the coming of the faith, under law [the law of sin and death] we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed,
so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by [out of] faith we may be declared righteous, and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we, ---- No more under law but under Grace, the grace of life, the resurrected Christ, the One who has been made alive out of death

That is the faith they died in. They were dead in faith. Lazarus died in the faith of the Abraham. In the bosom of the Abraham.

Since the faith has come we now, when we die, die in Christ.

Those, "in Christ," who are alive at his appearing will not precede the, "ones who sleep in Jesus" into the kingdom. The, "dead in Christ will rise first. John 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

The faith, is the faith of Christ.

We want make, "faith," as being something of us, rather than being of God in Christ.

God called/choose ones to be of faith. What was told Abraham was the faith of Abraham, "In thy seed all the peoples of the earth shall be blessed". God called him to be a believer.

IMHO

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

still have to ask. BTW I'm sorry I want leave it alone.

Brother,

I appreciate your continued thoughts on this. No apology is needed. These are worthwhile matters to consider.

I agree that Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world and that all redemption is found in Him alone.

Where I would differ is that Hebrews 11:13 says they died in faith, not that they died without salvation. Abraham was justified. David was forgiven. The saints of old were accepted by God. Those were present realities, not future possibilities.

I also agree that there is a difference between promise and fulfillment. Abraham looked forward to Christ. We look back to Christ. They possessed less revelation than we do. Yet the difference is one of revelation and historical fulfillment, not one of salvation itself.

If Abraham was truly justified, then he was justified through Christ. If David was truly forgiven, then he was forgiven through Christ. If they were truly saved, then they were saved by the same sacrifice that saves us.

Therefore, I continue to see one Savior, one sacrifice, one salvation, and one redeemed people.

The saints before the cross looked forward to the promised Redeemer. We look back to the Redeemer who has come. Yet both were saved by the same Christ.

Yours in Christ,

Tony