Where's the Beef: faith/BAG or BAG/Faith

[OldRegular]

Old Regular, you just don't quit do you? I have already showed you several times that Ephesians 1:13 shows the specific order that takes place in salvation.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

I did not write this again for you, as you have already shown you will resist the clear teaching of scripture. I wrote this so others would not fall into your error.

It is you who resist the clear teaching of Scripture. You simply will not give God the Glory for your salvation but must claim some of it for yourself. You remind me of the Pharisee:

Luke 18:11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

 

[OldRegular]

I did not see one verse that states that a person is first regenerated then believes, not one. You but in parenthesis (by grace you are saved) I am OK with that but it is incomplete, Paul fully states it "for by grace you are saved through faith. There again God's Grace, man's faith result in regeneration.

But that faith is the gift of God. You appear to be ignorant of the fact that there are a number of aspects to Salvation. Regeneration is only one of those aspects.

But you are like all freewillers. You cannot give God all the Glory for your salvation but must reserve a little, or a lot depending on your psyche, for yourself.

Tell me. What was it in your psyche that caused you to believe when others don't. Until you can answer that question you really have nothing to say worth listening to or rather reading?:laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

Benefactor

What he is doing is what Jesus spoke of in Mark

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

You can show him a hundred scriptures that contradict his belief, he will ignore and reject them all to keep his own tradition.

I will ask you the same question I asked benefactor: What was it in your psyche that caused you to believe when others don't. Until you can answer that question you really have nothing to say worth listening to or rather reading?:laugh:

 

[Jerome]

"Faith is necessary to the Christian character; and must therefore precede regeneration, when this is understood in its widest sense. Even in the restricted sense, in which it denotes the beginning of the spiritual life, faith, in the sense in which James uses the term, may precede." ---John Dagg, Manual of Theology

 

[canadyjd]

Look at Ephesians 2:1-10 from the NASB.......This passage states that while we were still [spiritually] dead in our trespasses God made us [spiritually] alive. We were spiritually dead, unable to do anything to change our relationship toward God because as 1 Corinthians 2:14 [NASB] states: But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

......There is no mention of faith, there is no indication of any action on man's part. This is totally consistent with what Jesus Cjrist told Nicodemus about the new birth in John 3:3-10:......Notice that in verse 8 Jesus Christ tells Nicodemus that those born of the Spirit [regenerated] do not even understand how.......

I want to be very clear. No one who believes in the Biblical Doctrines of Grace would argue that Faith does not have a significant place in the Salvation of man. Scripture teaches that we are justified by faith. Faith is the instrument through which we recognize and acknowledge that which God has performed in our salvation; but that faith is the gift of God as Ephesians 2:8 clearly shows. Salvation is of the LORD!

And then Benefactor said:

I did not see one verse that states that a person is first regenerated then believes, not one. You but in parenthesis (by grace you are saved) I am OK with that but it is incomplete, Paul fully states it "for by grace you are saved through faith. There again God's Grace, man's faith result in regeneration.

Were the Beef? I have yet to see one single straight forward verse that refutes Jesus’ statement in Luke 7:50. And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Benefactor, You are asking us to "refute" Luke 7:50. Such a statement demonstrates a lack of understanding on your part. There is no need to "refute" Luke 7:50 when it is understood and harmonized with the rest of scripture.

Old Regular has addressed all these passages and harmonized them without contradicting each another. You have not. You just keep pointing at one passage as if the others don't matter at all.

That "faith" saves is not in doubt. Most of those of the reformed view believe faith is necessary for salvation. Luke 7:50 is not denied. Luke 7:50, however, doesn't address regeneration.

Eph. 2 does address regeneration, and there scripture is clear that while we were dead spiritually, God made us alive spiritually. Clearly, the focus is on what God has done in bringing about a new spiritual life from spiritual deadness.

I Cor 2:14 does address the state of a "natural" man (that is one who is dead spiritually). And there, scripture clearly says that a "natural" man (one who is dead spiritually) is unable to understand the things of the Spirit of God because they are spiritually discerned. That means their spirit must be made alive before they can understand.

Now, all you have to ask yourself is whether "faith" in our Lord Jesus Christ is a "spiritual" act based on spiritual understanding.

If yes (and it clearly is), then Holy Spirit must do something that enables the unbeliever/natural man/spiritually dead man to understand that spiritual truth.

peace to youraying:

BTW, well done Old Regular.

 

[OldRegular]

And this is where you go wrong. Spiritual death always means separation from God.

I have been trying to make that point that unregenerate man is separated from God. Furthermore he is unable to change that situation. God must do it and He does as Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:1-10. But you choose not to believe. That is your prerogative. Don't give God the Glory He deserves. I will!

But God made a promise to them to send a saviour who would bruise the head of the serpent who had fooled Eve and brought about their fall. And Adam and Eve both believed this promise. So again, we have the order of hearing the word of God, and then believeing.

Just where does it say that Adam and Eve believed God?

 

[Jerome]

"Here, in the first place, the Apostle shows, that nothing is set before faith but mere grace; . . . Hence, also, we may easily learn, that grace is not to be taken, as some imagine, for the gift of regeneration," ---John Calvin, Commentary on Romans 4:16

 

[canadyjd]

"Here, in the first place, the Apostle shows, that nothing is set before faith but mere grace; . . . Hence, also, we may easily learn, that grace is not to be taken, as some imagine, for the gift of regeneration," ---John Calvin, Commentary on Romans 4:16

I am not sure what you believe that quote demonstrates, but here are a few words from Calvin's Institutes I found by a quick google.

http://www.reformed.org/master/index.html?mainframe=/books/institutes/entire.html

……These things I now briefly advert to, as I have fully considered them elsewhere. To the same effect Paul says to the Ephesians, "Ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise," (Eph. 1: 13 thus showing that he is the internal teacher, by whose agency the promise of salvation, which would otherwise only strike the air or our ears, penetrates into our minds. In like manner, he says to the Thessalonians, "God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation, through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth," (2 Thess. 2: 13 by this passage briefly reminding us, that faith itself is produced only by the Spirit. This John explains more distinctly, "We know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he has given us;" again, "Hereby know we that we dwell in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit," (1 John 3: 24; 4: 13.) Accordingly to make his disciples capable of heavenly wisdom, Christ promised them "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive," (John 14: 17.) And he assigns it to him, as his proper office, to bring to remembrance the things which he had verbally taught; for in vain were light offered to the blind, did not that Spirit of understanding open the intellectual eye; so that he himself may be properly termed the key by which the treasures of the heavenly kingdom are unlocked, and his illumination, the eye of the mind by which we are enabled to see:……

Clearly, Calvin saw the ability to have faith as a gift from God by the work of Holy Spirit in the life of an unbeliever.

peace to youraying:

 

[OldRegular]

"Faith is necessary to the Christian character; and must therefore precede regeneration, when this is understood in its widest sense. Even in the restricted sense, in which it denotes the beginning of the spiritual life, faith, in the sense in which James uses the term, may precede." ---John Dagg, Manual of Theology

You are taking that statement out of context. Dagg also says in the same paragraph:But a faith which exists before the beginning of spiritual life cannot be a living faith. When Dagg speaks of regeneration in its widest sense he is talking about regeneration as it sometimes used in a comprehensive sense, as including the whole formation of Christian character.[From page 279 as quoted below.]

Dagg has previously said about Regeneration [page277]:

In all who are finally saved, the Holy Spirit produces a great moral change, by which they become inclined to holiness. In our natural state we are totally depraved. No inclination to holiness exists in the carnal heart; and no holy act can be performed, or service to God rendered until the heart is changed. This change it is the office of the Holy Spirit to effect. Pardon, justification, and adoption are changes in a man's condition: but if no other change were wrought, the man would be a slave to sin, and unfit for the service and enjoyment of God. Grace, therefore, does not stop with a mere change of condition but it effects also that change in character, without which the individual could not participate in the holy enjoyments of heaven, or be fitted for the society of the blessed.

Dagg further states:

So great is the change produced, that the subject of it is called a new creature as if proceeding, like Adam, directly from the creating hand of God; and he is said to be renewed, as being restored to the image of God, in which man was originally formed

2 Corinthians 5:17, KJV
17. Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Dagg further notes:

The change is moral. The body is unchanged; and the identity of the mind is not destroyed. The individual is conscious of being the same person that he was before; but a new direction is given to the active powers of the mind, and new affections are brought into exercise. The love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost. No love to God had previously existed there; for the carnal heart is enmity against God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the principle of all holy obedience; and when love is produced in the heart, the law of God is written there. As a new principle of action, inciting to a new mode of life, it renders the man a new creature. The production of love in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is the regeneration, or the new birth; for he that loveth, is born of God.

The mode in which the Holy Spirit effects this change, is beyond our understanding. All God's ways are unsearchable; and we might as well attempt to explain how he created the world, as how he new-creates the soul. With reference to this subject, the Saviour said, The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[John 3:8, KJV] We know, from the Holy Scriptures, that God employs his truth in the regeneration of the soul. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.[James 1:18, KJV] Love to God necessarily implies knowledge of God, and this knowledge it is the province of truth to impart. But knowledge is not always connected with love. The devils know, but do not love; and wicked men delight not to retain the knowledge of God, because their knowledge of him is not connected with love. The mere presentation of the truth to the mind, is not all that is needed, in producing love to God in the heart.

Dagg again notes regarding regeneration [page 279]:

The term regeneration is sometimes used in a comprehensive sense, as including the whole formation of Christian character. At other times it is used for the first production of divine love in the heart. In the latter sense, the work is instantaneous. There is a moment known only to God, when the first holy affection exists in the soul.

In my use of the term regeneration I have meant the more restricted sense: the first production of divine love in the heart, the new birth. Notice also Dagg says that moment is known only to God which is consistent with the remarks of Jesus Christ in John 3:7, 8.

7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

If regeneration or the new birth is known only to God there can be no prior exercise of faith.


Finally Dagg [page 322] comments on the natural man’s inability regarding salvation, as follows:

Every proposed method of salvation that leaves the issue dependent on human volition is defective. It has always been found that men will not come to Christ for life. The Gospel is preached to every creature; but all, with one consent, ask to be excused. The will of man must be changed; and this change the will cannot itself effect. Divine grace must here interpose. Unless God works in the sinner to will and to do, salvation is impossible.

 

[Lux et veritas]

Old Regular, you just don't quit do you? I have already showed you several times that Ephesians 1:13 shows the specific order that takes place in salvation.

Actually, I think OR is showing remarkable patience in a persistent staying with the point against some rather uncharitable comments made against him.

You, however, have fallen victim to the common weakness of buttressing your point by being selective in your texts, and totally ignoring context. Why not go back to the earlier verses of Ephesians 1?

Because then you would have to deal with predestination in v.11 that comes before any of the aspects of salvation you have brought up. And then you would have to try to explain away the plain meaning of v.4 of being chosen before the foundation of the world.

Holding to Reformed Theology, I can tell you that there is nothing in verses 13,14 that speak against a calvinistic viewpoint. Quoting those verses repeatedly simply is advertising to the world that you just don't understand RT and so you, like so many others on this forum are arguing against what you THINK RT is, not what it is. Shame.

Of course we 'trust" after we 'hear'. But you are only going back half-ways. You claim the trust is from within thus giving man the glory, and we say it comes as a gift from God, thus giving all glory to God - ALONE!

 

[Benefactor]

Ben, please don't shout. When you type in large letters, that is internet-ese for shouting. You can use italics or bold-face (but not too much--it's distracting) to make your point.

Quote me the verse - Which verse clearly states that regeneration precedes faith.

Where is the beef?

Luke 7:50. And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Let me see, which comes first? Is if faith or saved. Children what is the answer? Teacher I know. OK what is it? Faith comes first. Very good, you get an "A" for the correct answer.

It does not say "Your salvation has faithed you"

Tom this is for you so that you will feel better. I think this is what you are wishing for. Hard to see and very small; does this suite you sir, would you be happy see all my post in this way?

 

[Benefactor]

I am not sure what you believe that quote demonstrates, but here are a few words from Calvin's Institutes I found by a quick google.

http://www.reformed.org/master/index.html?mainframe=/books/institutes/entire.html

Clearly, Calvin saw the ability to have faith as a gift from God by the work of Holy Spirit in the life of an unbeliever.

peace to youraying:

One thing you don't understand is that John Calvin has little to no credibility.

 

[Benefactor]

Benefactor

What he is doing is what Jesus spoke of in Mark

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

You can show him a hundred scriptures that contradict his belief, he will ignore and reject them all to keep his own tradition.

Amen to that a million times over.

 

[Benefactor]

Your kind of posts drive many away from this board.
Try showing you're a Christian, first, Arminian second, to your fellows who were also redeemed by the blood of Christ.
If you disagree with TULIP, then show why you have the correct position, instead of painting your brethren as liars, deceivers, and truth twisters.
Or do you think Christ did not die to redeem them also, but just you and your fellow non-TULIPs ?

Using your own words sir, you need prove me wrong. I read the same Bible you do and the men who wrote the TULIP theory are human just like me and you. Your words are yours and mine are mine and their's are theirs. So you need to take your own advice and answer the following.

Here is what you are complaining about and unwilling to directly comment on, instead you divert the attention away from answering this statement because you perhaps can't or can you and you won't.

Originally Posted by Benefactor
So you are saying that you do not teach that a person is first saved then given a special gift of faith to believe in Christ. Is this a true statement of your theology? Yes or No

Now do you teach or believe that a person is first saved and after he is saved he is given the gift of faith so that he will believe.

Where is your bible does it say that a person was regenerated so that he then is faithed? Will you so kindly show me one single verse that clearly states it this way which is the opposite from the following which is what the Bible actually clearly and with out definition teaches?

Here is the clear simple unadulterated truth.

Luke 7:50. And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Now sir, please show everyone in the world your proof text that is clear, simple, to the point that in some indisputable way states something like the following.

Jesus said "to someone" Your regeneration has resulted in Me giving you the gift of faith" Where in the Bible do we find such a statement like this?

I will see you in a 100 millions years or longer because such a concept or verse cannot be found in the Bible, but you are welcome to try.

 

[Benefactor]

But that faith is the gift of God. You appear to be ignorant of the fact that there are a number of aspects to Salvation. Regeneration is only one of those aspects.

But you are like all freewillers. You cannot give God all the Glory for your salvation but must reserve a little, or a lot depending on your psyche, for yourself.

Tell me. What was it in your psyche that caused you to believe when others don't. Until you can answer that question you really have nothing to say worth listening to or rather reading?:laugh:

Giving God The Glory - We were created in the image of God and have the capacity to make decisions. When we hear the truth we then are responsible to believe or reject it. Faith comes by hearing. Capacity to have faith is in all men but where there is not object for faith to trust in faith does not exist. The coming into existence of faith is by hearing the Truth of the good news of Christ. The Holy Spirit opens the eyes of the lost with the truth and if accepted and believed a person is given eternal life.

Now perhaps you should start believing what Scripture clearly says and stop depending on your own private interpretation. You are a Calvinist and that is what Calvinist does best, private interpretation, man's view, Augustine, Calvin and all those so called themselves self appointed RT prophets. That is who you are until you change it will remain.:wavey:

 

[OldRegular]

Benefactor

What was it in your psyche that caused you to believe when others don't. Until you can answer that question you really have nothing to say worth listening to or rather reading?:wavey:

 

[OldRegular]

Of course we 'trust" after we 'hear'. But you are only going back half-ways. You claim the trust is from within thus giving man the glory, and we say it comes as a gift from God, thus giving all glory to God - ALONE!

Many thanks Lux et veritas.

The Apostle Paul writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit says it well:

Ephesians 1:6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Now do you teach or believe that a person is first saved and after he is saved he is given the gift of faith so that he will believe.

YES, OH YES !!!! That is exactly what I believe, preach and teach.

The Bible teaches that there is a book of life, and in that book of life are written all the names of God's elect, and these names were written BEFORE the foundation of the world, and BEFORE they were created, BEFORE Adam and Eve fell, BEFORE any of God's people sinned. This is directly in agreement with Paul's statement in Romans 9:11: "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

The Bible says that the reason Mary's child was to be called Jesus was because He shall save His people from their sins and if faith were a pre-requisite to that saving from God's wrath and sin's penalty then the angel forgot to say that to Mary, perhaps ? Or maybe the holy spirit you believe in deliberately had that requirement omitted so that the Bible becomes a difficult thing for God's people to understand ? Which makes you in agreement with Harold Camping.

The Bible says that when His people were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly (Romans 5:6) and what, Mr. Benefactor, makes and causes ungodliness but, among many other things, the absence of faith ? And when is one without strength as when one is dead in sins and trespasses, unregenerate, and without faith ?


You, sir, are an enemy of true grace.

Where is your bible does it say that a person was regenerated so that he then is faithed?

Let Paul locate it for you. It is in Ephesians 2:4 and 5 - "4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Did you have faith when you were dead in sins ? Not until you were quickened did you realize sin was sin and the call to repentance was meant for you, and then you turned to Christ.

Will you so kindly show me one single verse that clearly states it this way which is the opposite from the following which is what the Bible actually clearly and with out definition teaches?

See above, if you can.

Here is the clear simple unadulterated truth.

Luke 7:50. And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

How much of a humanist you are, I don't know, but you sure sound like one who refuse to give Christ and God only the glory of saving whom
they want to save apart from the sinner's works of righteousnesses, which is what faith is.

The woman in question would not have gone to Christ in repentance and faith if she were still dead in trespasses and sins, in which she would have directed her "faith" to the rituals and rites of Judaist religion if she were unregenerate. Her turning to the One True God who alone hath immortality is the same concept of temporal salvation, salvation from false worship, which Paul and other epistle writers have often spoken of, which is distinctly apart from the salvation from the penalty of sin which Jesus saved His people from.

But that is not what you are questioning. Your assertion is that sinners DO NOT HAVE TO BE REGENERATED FIRST before they can have faith, to which I have shown you by Scripture and by explanation of these same Scriptures that regeneration precedes faith, which is an ability that is God-given.

Now sir, please show everyone in the world your proof text that is clear, simple, to the point that in some indisputable way states something like the following.

Jesus said "to someone" Your regeneration has resulted in Me giving you the gift of faith" Where in the Bible do we find such a statement like this?

I will see you in a 100 millions years or longer because such a concept or verse cannot be found in the Bible, but you are welcome to try.

The concept, principle, and doctrine has been explained in the above replies.

I do not even know why I bother with you since it is the likes of you that have caused me to almost stumble in my Christian life, who come and fart at everybody like you had the monopoly of truth.

Let me tell you, sir, that after the first and only true New Testament church had gone up to heaven, there is not one single body of believers, Baptist or otherwise who can claim to have a monopoly and complete understanding of truth, therefore, when Scripture is discussed, the respect we show for others indicates how much truth we hold to, and you have not demonstrated that, at all.

 

[Lux et veritas]

Quote me the verse - Which verse clearly states that regeneration precedes faith.

Where is the beef?

Luke 7:50. And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Let me see, which comes first? Is if faith or saved. Children what is the answer? Teacher I know. OK what is it? Faith comes first. Very good, you get an "A" for the correct answer.

It does not say "Your salvation has faithed you"

Tom this is for you so that you will feel better. I think this is what you are wishing for. Hard to see and very small; does this suite you sir, would you be happy see all my post in this way?

I'm having just a bit of difficulty with confidence in your abilities in Greek, when you have such difficulty communicating in English.

 

[Winman]

Actually, I think OR is showing remarkable patience in a persistent staying with the point against some rather uncharitable comments made against him.

You, however, have fallen victim to the common weakness of buttressing your point by being selective in your texts, and totally ignoring context. Why not go back to the earlier verses of Ephesians 1?

Because then you would have to deal with predestination in v.11 that comes before any of the aspects of salvation you have brought up. And then you would have to try to explain away the plain meaning of v.4 of being chosen before the foundation of the world.

Holding to Reformed Theology, I can tell you that there is nothing in verses 13,14 that speak against a calvinistic viewpoint. Quoting those verses repeatedly simply is advertising to the world that you just don't understand RT and so you, like so many others on this forum are arguing against what you THINK RT is, not what it is. Shame.

Of course we 'trust" after we 'hear'. But you are only going back half-ways. You claim the trust is from within thus giving man the glory, and we say it comes as a gift from God, thus giving all glory to God - ALONE!

Faith is a gift in that without God's word, we would not have knowledge of God and Jesus. But the faith to believe is ours, and there is abundant scripture to prove that.

Matt 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Matt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Why would this woman's faith be remarkable to the Lord if the Lord himself gave it to her?

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Luke 7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Why would Jesus marvel at the centurion's faith if it was a gift from God?

I could list dozens of other verses that show that faith is always attributed to the person who posseses it.

And not only did Jesus compliment people with great faith, he also criticized those with little faith. Neither make sense if their faith or lack of faith was the responsibility of God.

Matt 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Jesus criticized the apostles here for lack of faith. That makes no sense if their faith came from God. The apostles could have rightly answered that they had little faith because that is all the faith God gave them.

And there are many verses like this as well. You see, this is yet another false teaching of Calvinism. Whether you want to accept it or not, unsaved men know right from wrong and have the ability to choose between the two. Unsaved men also have the ability to believe or trust in others. You trust every day. When you buy food at the grocery store, you are trusting that the food is safe to eat. When you go out in your car you are trusting that the brakes will safely stop you, otherwise you would be afraid to drive your car.

James 1:6-7 shows that faith is the personal responsibility of a man.

Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

These verses make absolutely no sense if faith is a gift from God. Here the scriptures hold a man accountable for believeing God's word and show that if a man doubts he will be penalized, and not receive the request of his prayer. If God gives one man faith, and withholds it from another then these verses make no sense.

Calvinists spiritualize faith when it is a very ordinary and human thing that we exercise everyday. Calvinists also pull Eph 2:8 out of context to teach faith is a gift, when the subject of the chapter is salvation not faith. And Rom 6:23 verifies this:

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The supernatural work in salvation is when the Holy Spirit enters a person and quickens them. But unsaved man can hear and understand the scriptures if they so choose. Faith is a choice. If I said to you that if you should send me ten dollars, in one week I will send you one hundred dollars, you would then have to decide if I am an honest and sincere person or a crook. If you believed me because you knew me well and knew me to be trustworthy, then you would probably send the money. If you did not know me or knew me to be untrustworthy, then you would not send the money. Faith is a decision, a choice that every person has the ability to perform.

In salvation, a man's personal will is the door. Jesus through the scriptures and calling of the Holy Spirit bids entry into a man. Only when a man chooses to trust Christ will he give permission for Jesus to enter. When the Holy Spirit enters, it is then that a man is quickened, made alive.

And I have shown scripture also that clearly shows an unsaved person lost in sins can hear the word of God and believe.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

I also showed in Genesis when Adam and Eve had sinned and spiritually died that they could still communicate and understand God's word, and how they later believed God's promise to send a saviour. It was after believeing God's promise that God made skins for them covering them, a picture of the righteousness of Christ imputed to those who believe.