Which church do you clame membership to?

[Chemnitz]

Bob, what are you smoking? Nobody is talking about the RCC or at least I am not.

Matt 28 inserting the idea of "makeing disciples BY baptizing" is not an eisegetical error that the primary Bible translators make. But I know why the RCC has to "insert" such an idea -

If I am wrong prove me wrong, but then you can't since I have Greek Grammars that back me up. BTW Daniel Wallace the guy who wrote the particular grammar I cited is a prof at Dallas Theological Seminary.

 

[Matt Black]

It's OK: as far as Bob is concerned everyone is talking about and in league with those evil Romanists if they don't agree with him.

 

[mman]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
What you are missing is the Romans 10 sequence and the problem of the New Birth vs the sinful nature (total depravity described in Rom 3).

If unsaved mankind is depraved and being "drawn" to God "convicted of sin and righteousness and judgment" then at the point he believes and confesses (Romans 10) he is saved. Just as the text says. It is THEN that he makes the "appeal to God for a clean conscience".

But when he is baptized he simply is "following in obedience". Obedience is not "optional" - but long before he begins LIVING this life of "obedience" he had to be "born again" saved, forgiven, walking in the Spirit so that "By the Spirit" he puts to death the deeds of the flesh and that includes choosing to follow in obedience - the step of water Baptism.

But can you really believe that the lost person does not decide to appeal to God for a clean conscience until his head touches the water?

In Christ,

Bob

I'm not missing Rom 10. Rom 10 does not negate Mark 16:16 or I Pet 3:21, but is in perfect and complete harmony. Rom 10 comes after Rom 6 where he has discussed in detail how we get INTO Christ and how we come in contact with His death.

I Pet 3:21 tells us exactly how we make an appeal to God, and that is through baptism!

As for Rom 10 do we have an examples of anyone calling on the name of the Lord? Yes we do, in Acts 22:16, "Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord".

See Rom 10, Rom 6 and I Pet 3:21 are all in complete harmony.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 10 does not negate Mark 16:16 or I Pet 3:21, but is in perfect and complete harmony.

Now there - see? We agree on seomthing.

Romans 10 starts off with the need to believe and confess. That had to have already been done long before the "freedom" mentioned in Romans 6 and even the crisis of Romans 7 and the "Walking in the Spirit and puting to death the deeds of the flesh" of Romans 8. All those had to have happened long AFTER the Romans 10 act of "Belief" and confession in verbal expression.

The question remains -- "But can you really believe that the lost person does not decide to appeal to God for a clean conscience until his head touches the water?"

"As many as BELIEVED" were baptized!

Acts 19:18
Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices.

IN Christ,

Bob

 

[mman]

BobRyan:

Which of the following statements are true:

1)"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"
or
2)He that believeth and is saved shall be baptized

And

1)"Baptism now saves you"
or
2)Baptism now DOES NOT save you