Which church do you clame membership to?

Praise God! \o/

Mike </font>[/QUOTE]So you teach and believe two baptisms? Eph 4:5 says there is just one.

You idea of the church with many different names is contrary to all scripture.

There is division because different things are being taught. God is worshiped in opposing ways. All cannot be the "pillar and ground" of truth (I Tim 3:15).

Is God in present and condoning a group of people who teach that baptism is merely sprinkling water, while at the same time another group across town is meeting and teaching that baptism is not in water but only the Spirit, while at the same time another group is meeting and stating that baptism is immersion in water. One thing is for sure, at least two of these are wrong, and possibly all three are, but all three CANNOT be right and true.

If the Chrurch is the pillar and ground of truth, how can different denominations ever fulfill this, since they teach various doctrines.

Truth never contradicts itself. Truth must be whole. If you add to, take away, or change, you no longer have the truth.

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

There are a lot of people not worshipping in truth, therefore, they are not true worshippers according to this verse.

 

There is one baptism to the inner man (Holy Ghost) and one baptism to the outward man, (water baptism).

 

The math doesn't add up here, 1+1=2. It is not 1+1=1

 

And both (normatively) take place at the same time.

 

Non-Denominational! Just good ole "Christian Fellowship".

 

No, you get the Holy Ghost baptism before going to the water, if not you go in a dry sinner and come out a wet one.

Acts, chapter 10
"47": Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

 

Sure it adds up. Where is your faith, inner man or outward man. Which man was born again and which one is waiting for the resurrection.

 

Bob it still doesn't add up, it states very plainly in Scripture that there is only one Baptism but you keep talking about two Baptisms. As to your question, my whole man was born again and my whole man is waiting for the resurrection as God did not save only half of me.

 

Somehow I knew you'd pull that out; this is why I said "normatively". In the context of that passage, the Holy Spirit fell first to demonstrate to the apostles that the gospel was for the gentiles as well (and they didn't need to convert to Judaism first). Otherwise the biblical pattern and the historical consensual Christian belief is regeneration by the Spirit coinciding with the physical act of immersion into the baptismal waters.

 

Is that what happen to the Samarians? Acts 8:12 -But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

I guess these baptized believers were just "wet sinners"?

I guess the Holy Spirit got the sequence out of order according to you.

Verse 15 states, "who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

You see, being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is water baptism.

"In the name of" is the same as saying by the authority of. Jesus stated, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved". He is talking about water baptism, and the scriptures prove that point.

Today, there is just one baptism (Eph 4:5). You can perform all the mental gymnastics you need to, but there is still just one. It is either water or Holy Spirit. Pick one and disregard the other. In Acts 10 there is a distinction between the two. In Acts 2 there is a distinction between the two.

As I have shown time and time again, the scriptures show that water baptism is still in effect today, therefore it is by necessity, the one baptism.

 

If you don't know that it is the inward man that is "born again" then you are lacking understanding. The outward man is waiting on his change. If the outward man was "born again" he would not have to die the natural death but he does and will receive his change in the resurrection but the inward man has already been delivered from a dead state of sin unto a lively hope in Jesus Christ, he was dead but by the Holy Spirit of God and the blood of the Lamb he is made alive, raised to walk a newness of life. The outward man had not been "born again as of yet but by the promise of God if the inward has been again then God will also deliver the fleshly man, and water baptism don't save anyone if you believe that then go to the Church of Christ.

 

You didn't answer, did the Holy Spirit get the order mixed up in Acts 8?

The one baptism is Eph 4:5, is it water or spirit?

 

Acts, chapter 8
"16": (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

We are gentiles and the following is our example in receiving the Holy Ghost. It was a time of transition from those under the Law to the Grace but how it fell upon the Gentiles is as follows:

Acts, chapter 10
"45": And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
"46": For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
"47": Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

[ I don't have to pick one, The Lord picked it for me the Holy Ghost for the inward man and the water baptism to the outward man and the water baptism is not putting away the filth of the flesh.
1 Peter, chapter 3
"21": The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

how could you answer a good conscious if you didn't already have it?

 

So you believe that only half of you is saved? I didn't know God did half measures, where is this Bible passage you are getting this from? Last I saw you were either saved or you weren't, the only people I know who teach anything like partial salvation are the RCC.

I am at the same time all saint in that Jesus has redeemed me - mind, body, and soul - by His blood and all sinner awaiting the new heaven and new earth. "Sometimes I feel like Jekyll and Hyde
Two men are fighting a war inside" - Petra

BTW why would I want to go to the CoC, if you didn't notice I am not Baptist, I am Lutheran.

So now we are back to two baptisms.

 

The order was opposite unto those before the bringing in of the Gentiles.

Lutheran; I ask you why you have to die then, the inward man does not have to die anymore. He was dead but is now made alive in Christ Jesus. I do not believe that a part of you is going to Heaven and the other part is not but I do believe your soul will go to Heaven when you die because of the Holy Ghost baptism and the outward man will go to Heaven in the resurrection for if the same Spirit be in you that raise Christ from the dead it shall also quicken your mortal body. When you die your body will be planted a corruptable man if it had been born again it would already be an incorruptable man. Two baptisms depends on whether you are talking about both men, the outward and the inward.

 

Mman;
Spirit for by the one Spirit are we all baptised unto the one body (Body of Christ). The water baptisim don't save anyone but is to answer a good conscious to God. If it took water to save you then The Lord was wrong when He told the thief on the right "this day thou shalt be with me in paradise".

Also, the Samaritans believed and were baptized but were lacking the Holy Ghost for Simon believe and was baptized also and then tried to buy the Holy Ghost. Everyone in the transition that were baptized from John's baptism to the after the day of pentecost had to receive the Holy Ghost but after the coming in of the Gentiles they received the Holy Ghost baptisim first and then the water baptism.

[ April 19, 2006, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

Where is your scripture that talks only of the innerward man being saved this side of the Second coming.

So if there are two baptisms why does God say there is only one?

 

Chemnitz:
Scripture?
Romans, chapter 8
"11": But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Also, means something has already been redeemed, don't you agree/

Romans, chapter 8
"23": And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (means that the body hasn't been redeemed as of yet but we know if we are saved that a part of us surely has, don't you agree on that?


I just told you why there is one to outward man and one to inward man. The one to the inward man is the Spiritual one that saves. The one to the outward man is the water to answer a good conscious as the Scriptures say. There is nothing I have said that is not exactly what the Scriptures say.
You wanted an answer, I gave you one.
I tell you what why don't you answer me to why we have to die if we have already been redeemed? Also, you tell me if the Bible contradicts itself or not. The only answer to the Scripture of One baptism is it has to be talking to the part of man that is redeemed now, raised from dead to alive in Christ Jesus. Now its your time.

[ April 19, 2006, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

Chemnitz: mman;
We all know there must be an answer to that Scripture Eph 4:5. I give the same answer that John the Baptist gave now what is your answers to that Scripture. I am open minded if it is Scripture.

 

Rms 8:23 does not refer to a separation of spirit and body in terms of redemption, it is about the awaiting of the culmination of all in the new creation.

We die for we are still sinners completely, yet at the same time we are saints completely. We are not half and half.

In Romans six we are Baptized bodily into the death and resurrection of Christ. This connection is a complete connection. No where does it say first this part and then this part.

I still am waiting to hear how 1+1=1.

To have a good conscious requires a clean spirit so if baptism gives a good conscious it must be cleaning the spirit.