Which is it and why.

[Catalyst]

Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in [fn]the members of our body to bear fruit for death.



not in the flesh.
Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

in the flesh?
Rom 7:16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.


Rom 7:17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

Rom 7:20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. .


Not perfect...
Phl 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on [fn]so that I may lay hold of that [fn]for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

Perfect...
Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;


Should Paul be labeled a lunatic?
Should he be given an excuse for contradicting himself?
Did he contradict himself?
Can you reconcile those comments so they are not a contradiction without changing words, and still be consistent with the rest of Paul's messages?

NOTE: You should look up and study Greek HISTORICAL PRESENT, before commenting. I dunno why I would say that, I know few will. But it's the only hint you will get.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in [fn]the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

We are sinners. We dont want to, but we do.

not in the flesh.
Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Again, We are sinners. We dont want to, but we do.

in the flesh?
Rom 7:16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

The Law is good, and we know it...yet we still sin.

Rom 7:17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

The sin principle is working in us.

Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

There is a war going on

Rom 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

The war continues.

Rom 7:20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. .

The sin principle is at work, and we also give in to it.

Not perfect...
Phl 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on [fn]so that I may lay hold of that [fn]for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

We do the best we can, concidering our situation.

Perfect...
Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;

Because of Gods great gift of imputed rightiousness, the guilty one is given the gift of rightiousness, and can walk in the goodness of Gods great gift.

Should Paul be labeled a lunatic?

Of course not.

Should he be given an excuse for contradicting himself?

No.

Did he contradict himself?

Not in the least. He is a blessed man.

Can you reconcile those comments so they are not a contradiction without changing words, and still be consistent with the rest of Paul's messages?

Certainly

NOTE: You should look up and study Greek HISTORICAL PRESENT, before commenting. I dunno why I would say that, I know few will. But it's the only hint you will get.

Why? Since being born of the Spirit in 1982, God has had no trouble at all speaking to me in english. :godisgood:

 

[percho]

How relative would this verse be to your line of thought concerning the called out ones having the Spirit?

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

I believe it confirms your position.

Kind of like if he can do it why can't we being we have the same Spirit.

 

[convicted1]

........................................

 

[canadyjd]

The contexts of the passages are different. In Romans 7, Paul is continuing to explain the purpose of the O.T. Law using the repeated theme of slavery. He has personified both sin and death as rulers... sin controlling the unbeliever and bringing him to ruin before turning him over to death.

In the Phil. 3:12 passage the word "perfect" is used in the sense of having attained (or in Paul's case... not attaining) a goal.... the stated goal of sharing the sufferings of Christ to the point of death and then being resurrected.

In the Phil. 3:15 passage, the word "perfect" is used to indicate "completeness" in reference to their faith (maturity), namely that they who are "perfect" would walk according to Paul's example of humility in the midst of suffering for the faith.

Should Paul be labeled a lunatic?

No, Paul is perfectly consistent in his arguments.

Should he be given an excuse for contradicting himself? Did he contradict himself?

Since he did not contradict himself, there is no reason to offer an excuse.

Can you reconcile those comments so they are not a contradiction without changing words, and still be consistent with the rest of Paul's messages?

Of course, all you have to do is understand the passages in the context in which they where written.

NOTE: You should look up and study Greek HISTORICAL PRESENT, before commenting. I dunno why I would say that, I know few will. But it's the only hint you will get.

Well, I didn't study the Greek historical present. It didn't seem necessary given the context of the passages.

peace to youraying: