Which is the Jewish Sabbath - Saturday or Lunar?

If anyone seriously wanted to know about Ellen White and "her" so called "failed" prophecy... they could actually go read the book Great Controversy and see that a group of believers misunderstood a Bible Prophecy that had already been made in the Bible.

The "cleansing of the sanctuary" was misunderstood to mean the cleansing of the earth by fire and the second coming of Christ. But in actuality the Bible prophecy referred to the Judgment taking place.

Its not as if Ellen White came along and "prophesied" that Jesus was coming at that time and then He didnt.

God corrected His people soon after that.

Hopefully this wont be deleted since I see someone else has put a long quotation on this thread. and the Book "Great Controversy" is not copyrighted material. I have seen others here post quotations and even links to Seventh Day Adventist websites but I was reprimanded for it by a Moderator so its a little confusing as far as the "criteria" goes.

...anyway read this.. there is so much distortion about what happened back then... and if anyone is interested then actually go read The Great Controversy online to see what actually happened instead of making things appear differently than they really were:


Great Controversy, "The Sanctuary" by Ellen White
"The scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and the central pillar of the advent faith was the declaration: "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." Daniel 8:14. These had been familiar words to all believers in the Lord's soon coming. By the lips of thousands was this prophecy repeated as the watchword of their faith. All felt that upon the events therein foretold depended their brightest expectations and most cherished hopes. These prophetic days had been shown to terminate in the autumn of 1844. In common with the rest of the Christian world, Adventists then held that the earth, or some portion of it, was the sanctuary. They understood that the cleansing of the sanctuary was the purification of the earth by the fires of the last great day, and that this would take place at the second advent. Hence the conclusion that Christ would return to the earth in 1844.

But the appointed time had passed, and the Lord had not appeared. The believers knew that God's word could not fail; their interpretation of the prophecy must be at fault; but where was the mistake? Many rashly cut the knot of difficulty by denying that the 2300 days ended in 1844. No reason could be given for this except that Christ had not come at the time they expected Him. They argued that if the prophetic days had ended in 1844, Christ would then have returned to cleanse the sanctuary by the purification of the earth by fire; and that since He had not come, the days could not have ended.

To accept this conclusion was to renounce the former reckoning of the prophetic periods. The 2300 days had been found to begin when the commandment of Artaxerxes for the restoration and building of Jerusalem went into effect, in the autumn of 457 B.C. Taking this as the starting point, there was perfect harmony in the application of all the events foretold in the explanation of that period in Daniel 9:25-27. Sixty-nine weeks, the first 483 of the 2300 years, were to reach to the Messiah, the Anointed One; and Christ's baptism and anointing by the Holy Spirit, A.D. 27, exactly fulfilled the specification. In the midst of the seventieth week, Messiah was to be cut off. Three and a half years after His baptism, Christ was crucified, in the spring of A.D. 31. The seventy weeks, or 490 years, were to pertain especially to the Jews. At the expiration of this period the nation sealed its rejection of Christ by the persecution of His disciples, and the apostles turned to the Gentiles, A.D. 34. The first 490 years of the 2300 having then ended, 1810 years would remain. From A.D. 34, 1810 years extend to 1844. "Then," said the angel, "shall the sanctuary be cleansed." All the preceding specifications of the prophecy had been unquestionably fulfilled at the time appointed.

With this reckoning, all was clear and harmonious, except that it was not seen that any event answering to the cleansing of the sanctuary had taken place in 1844. To deny that the days ended at that time was to involve the whole question in confusion, and to renounce positions which had been established by unmistakable fulfillments of prophecy.

But God had led His people in the great advent movement; His power and glory had attended the work, and He would not permit it to end in darkness and disappointment, to be reproached as a false and fanatical excitement. He would not leave His word involved in doubt and uncertainty.

Though many abandoned their former reckoning of the prophetic periods and denied the correctness of the movement based thereon, others were unwilling to renounce points of faith and experience that were sustained by the Scriptures and by the witness of the Spirit of God. They believed that they had adopted sound principles of interpretation in their study of the prophecies, and that it was their duty to hold fast the truths already gained, and to continue the same course of Biblical research. With earnest prayer they reviewed their position and studied the Scriptures to discover their mistake. As they could see no error in their reckoning of the prophetic periods, they were led to examine more closely the subject of the sanctuary.

In their investigation they learned that there is no Scripture evidence sustaining the popular view that the earth is the sanctuary; but they found in the Bible a full explanation of the subject of the sanctuary, its nature, location, and services; the testimony of the sacred writers being so clear and ample as to place the matter beyond all question. The apostle Paul, in the Epistle to the Hebrews, says: "Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the holiest of all; which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; and over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat." Hebrews 9:1-5."


The subject of the sanctuary was the key which unlocked the mystery of the disappointment of 1844. It opened to view a complete system of truth, connected and harmonious, showing that God's hand had directed the great advent movement and revealing present duty as it brought to light the position and work of His people. As the disciples of Jesus after the terrible night of their anguish and disappointment were "glad when they saw the Lord," so did those now rejoice who had looked in faith for His second coming. They had expected Him to appear in glory to give reward to His servants. As their hopes were disappointed, they had lost sight of Jesus, and with Mary at the sepulcher they cried: "They have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid Him." Now in the holy of holies they again beheld Him, their compassionate High Priest, soon to appear as their king and deliverer. Light from the sanctuary illumined the past, the present, and the future. They knew that God had led them by His unerring providence. Though, like the first disciples, they themselves had failed to understand the message which they bore, yet it had been in every respect correct. In proclaiming it they had fulfilled the purpose of God, and their labor had not been in vain in the Lord. Begotten "again unto a lively hope," they rejoiced "with joy unspeakable and full of glory."


Both the prophecy of Daniel 8:14, "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed," and the first angel's message, "Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come," pointed to Christ's ministration in the most holy place, to the investigative judgment, and not to the coming of Christ for the redemption of His people and the destruction of the wicked. The mistake had not been in the reckoning of the prophetic periods, but in the event to take place at the end of the 2300 days. Through this error the believers had suffered disappointment, yet all that was foretold by the prophecy, and all that they had any Scripture warrant to expect, had been accomplished. At the very time when they were lamenting the failure of their hopes, the event had taken place which was foretold by the message, and which must be fulfilled before the Lord could appear to give reward to His servants.

Christ had come, not to the earth, as they expected, but, as foreshadowed in the type, to the most holy place of the temple of God in heaven. He is represented by the prophet Daniel as coming at this time to the Ancient of Days: "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came"--not to the earth, but--"to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him." Daniel 7:13.

This coming is foretold also by the prophet Malachi: "The Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 3:1. The coming of the Lord to His temple was sudden, unexpected, to His people. They were not looking to Him there . They expected Him to come to earth, "in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel." 2 Thessalonians 1:8.

But the people were not yet ready to meet their Lord. There was still a work of preparation to be accomplished for them. Light was to be given, directing their minds to the temple of God in heaven; and as they should by faith follow their High Priest in His ministration there, new duties would be revealed. Another message of warning and instruction was to be given to the church.

 

WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES:

1. The sabbath law was severe and rigid. (1) No work, Ex 20:10; 31:14-15; (2) bear no burden, Jer 17:21; (3) light no fire, Ex 35:3. Only in warm climates such as that in Israel could this be reasonably observed. The law of the sabbath was so severe that God had an Israelite stoned merely for gathering sticks to build a fire because by this he broke the sabbath law (Nu 15:32-36). The law was not given to be a blessing. The Apostle Peter had lived under the law all his life until he was converted in his adult years, and he called it a yoke of bondage "which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear" (Ac 15:10).

Jas 2:10 informs us that the law cannot be broken. Thus, anyone desiring to observe the sabbath of the Mosaic law must observe it exactly as God demanded in the Old Testament. And such a one must observe every other detail of the law. The O.T. law is not the Christian's standard; Christ is!

By reducing the requirements of the sabbath law, the SDA church destroys the power of the Mosaic law to reveal the need for the Savior. The Mosaic law was never intended as a way of life for the justified man-"knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man..." (1Ti 1:9). It was intended solely as a schoolmaster to bring the sinner to the Savior and to His salvation.

2. There is no Bible authority for a change in the sabbath law. The Lord Jesus did not change the law. He simply condemned the traditions of the Pharisees which had been added to the law. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Mt 5:17-18).

3. This is another instance of Ellen White adding to the inspired revelation. Mrs. White saw the sabbath law as more important than all others; it "shone above them all." The inspired Apostles saw no importance in it at all for the N.T. believer.

WHAT ADVENTISM TEACHES:

Since Jesus and the Apostles kept the Sabbath, Christians should today.

"The example of Jesus is clear and consistent. His custom was a Sabbath-keeping custom. ... Yet in spite of this, we find a strange situation in the world today. For though we have the same Christ as our example, the same Bible as our guide,, yet we find two Sabbath days kept by Christians..." (George Vandeman, Planet in Rebellion, p. 277).

"Christ's followers were careful to keep the Sabbath on which their buried Lord rested from His death struggle with sin" (New Life Bible Correspondence Course, Guide #16).
Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible

 

Mark 2:27 “The Sabbath was Made for MANKIND”.

When was this true? Where did this begin?

No Alternative

What are the possible "alternatives" to simply accepting the Mark 2:27 , Gen 2:3 and Isaiah 66 statements on the scope of Sabbath applying to “All Mankind”?

When “else” would you apply it?

#1. Would it be to argue that when God "Made the Sabbath for mankind" in Gen 2:3 He "kept the 7-day week and the 7th-day weekly Holy day of Christ our Creator a secret from all mankind."? Was this supposed time of keeping the memorial of creation a secret from mankind – the time when “Sabbath was made for mankind” but not the time when God expected “All mankind to come before Him to worship”?

#2. Is it in the OT days after the fall of Adam - when some claim that "God only gave the Sabbath to the Jews and NOT all mankind"?

#3. Is it post Cross - when some say that it actually displeases God if we obey Him and honor His 7th-day memorial of the creation of mankind – since in fact – He is not even asking us to honor His own memorial of Creation that He blessed and Sanctified in Gen 2:3 making it “For mankind”.

#3. Or is it sometime after the 2nd coming - when Isaiah 66 described the New Earth and "All mankind" coming before God to worship? Is it some post-2nd-coming “New Earth” as God describes in Rev 21?

#4. Or will the claim be that the People of God were kept so far in the dark in all of these areas - that they had no hope of having any understanding of the "New Heavens and New Earth" or when it would be and so any application of anything in that mythical - unknown time can not be counted on - even when the message comes from God Himself? Since (after all) the Jews were confused.

Basically there is no compelling alternative to suggest for Isaiah 66 let alone make a solid case for. So then we accept the Isaiah 66 reference to the New Earth as fully consistent with the Rev 21 reference and we also accept the “All mankind” – scope – as real, authoritative, divinely inspired and true – even though it is spoken in Isaiah to a rebellious Israel.

The sad reality is that for most non-Sabbath keeping Christians their views do not “Allow” Christ’s words in Mark 2:27 to be true at all!! They find NO time when it “Was true” that “The Sabbath was MADE for mankind” – even though Christ says this is the case in Mark 2:27.

How sad.

 

The New Heavens and New Earth point is solidified - because that is the only time when all the wicked of this planet will have been turned into corpses - with unquenchable fire.

This can not reference any time prior to that.

How sad that many view the words of Christ the Creator in Exodus 20:8-11 as “rigid and harsh” as He Himself points to Gen 2:3 showing that in His OWN act of resting at creation week – HE had already established the memorial of His own creative act!

 

In Mark 2:27 Christ the Creator tells us that at the Gen 2:3 event where “made” His seventh-day memorial of creation – (in Gen 2:3) “A holy day” it was then that He “Made it FOR mankind”. Mark 2:27


In Gen 2:3 we see that our Creator God rested on that day – blessed and sanctified it.

( A 7-day creation week - not a 6-day creation week cycle from the very start.)


In Exodus 20:8-11 God points directly at that Gen 2:3 “event” and declares that the details listed there – at that event – are sufficient to not only establish the day as His Holy day but that because of those details -- we are to “remember it”, to keep it holy because it was He who Made it Holy

.
God claims that in resting – He Blessed. In Gen 2:3 He rested – in Gen 2:3 He blessed the Sabbath day AND “made” it holy.

In Isaiah 66 – Our Lord and Savior tells us that even continuing into the New Earth – the OT concept of God’s Sabbath commandment – continues as a day of Worship saying “From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to Worship”


_____________________________________________________________
The case for the Sabbath “made for mankind” has been shown clearly from the Word of God and the arguments “Against that statement of Christ in Mark 2:27” have also been rehearsed so that now they are well defined and clear.

But objections have been raised by man in several forms including the following:

These represent weak and yet “hopeful” arguments that cling to the “void of what scripture does not say” in an effort to ignore what “it does say”.

Very similar to those who would say “no trinity, no trinity” because the word trinity is not in the Bible. They cling to what the Bible “does not say” in an effort to avoid what “it does say” on that very subject.

This “speculative” view has been refuted on several grounds.


1. There is no place in all of scripture where God makes something holy – and then work so that man “violates” the sanctity of that which He made holy – or work so that mankind stays “in the dark” on that subject., or has no intent that mankind should actually remember that it was made Holy for another 2500 years.

2. It has been shown that the Genesis account is not an exhaustive account of very fact known to mankind for the first 2500 years of earth’s history.
a. The example of the sin of murder in Gen 4 – though the “details” in the 6th commandment provided in Exodus 20 do not appear in the text before Genesis 4.
b. The case of the “details for the criteria and distinction” between clean and unclean animals in Gen 6 are given in Lev 11 but “missing” before Gen 6 -- and yet from the Gen 6 text we see that the “criteria” had to be known for what is clean and what is unclean – though not included in the story.
c. The example of previously known “Commandments Laws and Statutes” referenced in Gen 26:5 when as yet “nothing” had been written down for mankind.

3. Even in the OT the “scope” of God’s intended purpose for His own Holy 7th day memorial of making our earth is shown to be “all mankind” as He says of the New Earth “From Sabbath to Sabbath shall All Mankind come before Me to worship” Isaiah 66





Isaiah 66 speaking of the New Earth (also mentioned in Rev 21) "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to Worship"

Maybe that is "how" Christ the Creator wants us to "observe" His Holy day that He made holy on the 7th day of His creation week (Gen 2:3) as a blessing "For mankind" Mark 2:27.

 

Moral Obligation in the
Patriarchal Age

How long has sin reigned?
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:8.

What others sinned with Satan?
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" 2 Peter 2:4.

Can there be sin where there is no law?
"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:15.

How was the first death brought about?
"And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him." Genesis 4:8.

What was the difference between the characters of the two men?
"Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous." 1 John 3:12.

Did the Lord impute sin to Cain for taking the life of his brother?
"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand." Genesis 4:7-11.

In what condition was mankind before the flood?
"The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence." Genesis 6:11.

What did God purpose to do with the people of that day?
"And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth." Genesis 6:13.

What was Noah called?
"And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly." 2 Peter 2:5.

Why did the Lord destroy Sodom?
"But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." Genesis 13:13.
"For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it." Genesis 19:13.

By what standard were their deeds weighed?
"And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds.)" 2 Peter 2:7,8.

What did Joseph say when he was tempted on a certain point?
"There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?" Genesis 39:9.

What did God tell Abraham concerning the Amorites?
"But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." Genesis 15:16.

Of what sin were they specially guilty?
"And he did very abominably in following idols, according to all things as did the Amorites, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel." 1 Kings 21:26.

Why did the Lord abhor the nations that occupied Canaan before Israel?
"Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them." Leviticus 20:22,23.

Why did God make His promise to the seed of Abraham?
"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." Genesis 26:5.

What will the children of Abraham do?
"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." John 8:39.

Who are the children of Abraham?
"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29.

The Gentile Sabbath

How does God regard the Gentiles?
"Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also." Romans 3:29.

Is God partial to either Jew or Gentile?
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34,35.

What rule must be applied to convict anyone of sin?
"For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." Romans 5:13.

For whom is the law made?
"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers. For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine." 1 Timothy 1:9,10.

Were the Gentiles addicted to such practices?
"This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind," Ephesians 4:17.
"Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness." Ephesians 4:19.

Speaking of how God would visit the Gentiles and take out a people for Himself, what did James say was fallen down, and would be built up again?
"And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up." Acts 15:15,16.

What was to be the result of building again the tabernacle of David?
"That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things." Acts 15:17.

For whom was the Sabbath made?
"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" Mark 2:27.

What particular day did God reserve for the Sabbath, and command man to keep?
"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:" Exodus 20:10.

What does the Lord, through Isaiah, pronounce upon those who keep the Sabbath?
"Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil." Isaiah 56:2.

How does he say the stranger (Gentile) should feel when uniting with his people?
"Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree." Isaiah 56:3.

What does He say He will do for the stranger who keeps His Sabbath?
"Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him." Isaiah 56:6-8.

What two classes did Paul once address at Antioch on the Sabbath?
"Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience." Acts 13:16.

Under what conditions was the church established in the Gentile city of Philippi?
"And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days. And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither." Acts 16:12,13. Read also verses 14-40.

At Corinth, what two classes assembled on the Sabbath to listen to the apostle's discourses?
"And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks [Gentiles]." Acts 18:4.

How long had Moses and the prophets been read in the synagogues? And how extensively were they taught?
"For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." Acts 15:21.

Of what two classes was the "congregation of Israel" made up?
"And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle." Exodus 12:38.

How were these "strangers" regarded?
"One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you." Exodus 12:49.

Who murmured against Moses and Aaron after entering the wilderness?
"And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness." Exodus 16:2.

How did God prove the whole congregation?
"Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no." Exodus 16:4.

How did the people stand the test?
"And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?" Exodus 16:27,28.

How did all "the people" heed this stern rebuke?
"So the people rested on the seventh day." Exodus 16:30.
NOTE. - Here were the Egyptians (a mixed multitude) with the Israelites, and all were included among the murmurers. All were proved by God's law of the Sabbath, whether they would keep it or not, and that thirty days, at least, before its formal delivery upon Mt. Sinai. In this case, Israelite and Egyptian (Jew and Gentile) were treated alike, both were obliged to observe the Sabbath.

What instruction did Moses immediately begin giving to the people?
"When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws." Exodus 18:16.

When God gave the Sabbath commandment from Sinai, did He mention these Gentiles by name?
"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates." Exodus 20:10.

What prayer did Solomon offer at the dedication of the temple, concerning the privileges and duties of the stranger?
"Moreover concerning a stranger, that is not of thy people Israel, but cometh out of a far country for thy name's sake; (For they shall hear of thy great name, and of thy strong hand, and of thy stretched out arm when he shall come and pray toward this house; Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for: that all people of the earth may know thy name, to fear thee, as do thy people Israel; and that they may know that this house, which I have builded, is called by thy name." 1 Kings 8:41-43.

When all the redeemed people of the earth shall come up to worship before God in the new earth, what day will still be recognized by them?
"And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD." Isaiah 66:23.
NOTE. - Thus to all eternity will the creative power of Jehovah be commemorated by the redeemed of every tribe and nation of the earth.

 

Matthew Henry’s Commentary:

Lev 23


Verses 1-3

Here is, I. A general account of the holy times which God appointed (v. 2), and it is only his appointment that can make time holy; for he is the Lord of time, and as soon as ever he had set its wheels a-going it was he that sanctified and blessed one day above the rest, Gen. 2:3. Man may by his appointment make a good day (Esth. 9:19), but it is God's prerogative to make a holy day; nor is any thing sanctified but by the stamp of his institution. As all inherent holiness comes from his special grace, so all adherent holiness from his special appointment.

 

Bob--

What do you do with the rest of scriptures that says we (the Church) is not under the Mosaic Law? (Col. 2:16-17). As I said before, if the SDA church is keeping the Sabbath on Saturday, you need to go back into the OT and keep it like God commanded the ISRAELITES to keep it--which means you had better not come out door to door, on the Sabbath, and pass out your literature. Do you know you could be "stoned" for that, because that would break the Sabbath? We are commanded to "rest" on the Sabbath day--if you are going to church on Saturday, you aren't "resting"--are you? In Israel, Orthodox Jews are not allowed to drive on the Sabbath--from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. Do you drive to church?

Jesus Christ is my Shabbat/rest. I rest in Jesus' completed work on the cross. Praise the Lord!!

BTW--Sunday worship is NOT the "Mark of the Beast"

 

If you want to get technical about it, we are told to keep "God's Commandments" and not just the commandments of Jesus, which by the way are the exact same thing.

What effect does faith in Christ have upon the law?
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31.

In what did the apostle Paul delight?
"For I delight in the law of God after the inward man." Romans 7:22.

How does the carnal mind stand related to the law of God?
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7.

How long did the Saviour say all the law would be in force?
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18.

When asked which was the great commandment in the law, what answer did Christ make?
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Matthew 22:37-39.

What did He say hung on these two requirements?
"On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:40.
NOTE. - As long as these two great commandments continue, all the law must exist, as well; for it is suspended on, and inherent in, these two great principles of love. As long as these last, that must continue. If one loves God with all his heart, he will not worship idols nor images, neither will he profane the name of God. He will remember the day which God has set apart as a day of worship. So, if one loves his neighbor as himself, he will not kill him, steal from him, lie about him, or covet his possessions, etc. It is plain that if one had in his heart the two principles of love set forth by the Saviour, he must keep the law of God in all its parts.

What does the apostle say about the practice of Christ in keeping the law?
"And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." 1 John 3:5.

What does Christ say of Himself in this respect?
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." John 15:10.

If one would abide in Christ, what ought he to do?
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1 John 2:6.

How does James say one may be blessed in his deeds?
"But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." James 1:25.

What is said of those who profess to know the Lord, and yet do not keep His commandments?
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4.

What is the test whereby one may know he has passed from death unto life?
"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death." 1 John 3:14.

How may one be sure he loves the brethren?
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments." 1 John 5:2.

And what is the love of God?
"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3.

What will characterize the "remnant" church?
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17.

Over and over the New Testament tells us we must keep GOD'S COMMANDMENTS.

You know, if the Ten Commandments were changed that surely would've been mentioned in the New Testament.

And yes, the Sabbath is BIG DEAL. Seventh Day Adventists arent the ones who make a big deal out of it, the 7th day Sabbath is the sign that we worship the true God, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, which sets Him apart from all false gods.

That isnt hard to understand, is it?

Jesus told us to love God and love neighbor. On these two hang the WHOLE LAW.

If we love God we wont worship idols, take God's name in vain, and we will keep His Sabbath, honoring Him as our Creator.

It is more than just a little absurd to think that when the Bible says :
Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rv:14:12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rv:22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

..that it means all the 9 commandments but excludes the 7th day Sabbath.

Where would anyone get such an idea?

The burden of proof lies upon those who insist that the Sabbath has been changed and is now Sunday, the first day of the week. Where is the evidence in the Bible of this change?

I do not see it anywhere, any more than I see the New Testament saying "Thou shalt not kill, except now that Jesus died for you, you can now kill on Tuesdays".

The Commandments DO NOT CHANGE.

You cannot change the fact that in 6 days God created the world and everything in it and on the 7th day he rested. And we keep His Sabbath day to commemorate the fact.

We keep the 7th day Sabbath so that we will always keep in mind that God is our Creator, and that thus we owe Him our existence, our very being, our allegiance... we take one day out of 7, the one HE TOLD US TO KEEP... and we refrain from the weekly work grind so that we can set this special time aside to reflect on the fact that without Him we can do nothing. He is the one who sanctifies us and makes us holy.

John the Revelator said "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day..." show me where this was changed to Sunday?

The Bible is not going to reiterate that the Sabbath is the 7th day, because everyone already assumes that. The proof is on those who claim it was changed to the first day of the week or that we somehow dont have to keep it anymore.

Jesus kept the Sabbath and the Bible says "we ought to walk as He walked".

1Jn:2:6: He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The ten commandment Law has ALWAYS hung upon these two laws...

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:4,5.

"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Leviticus 19:18.

That is why Jesus told someone:

Matthew 22:
35: Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38: This is the first and great commandment.
39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Where do you think Jesus was getting this idea from? some new idea?

Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1Jn:2:7: Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

1Jn:2:8: Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Dont you all know what this means? it means that these all seemed like new commandments to the people because they were in such great darkness as to what was at the very CORE of the Law... the Pharisees were always "refraining from outward acts" of disobedience to the law, while all the time inwardly they were breaking it.

Thats why Jesus said you have heard thou shalt not kill, but I say dont even have anger against your brother or you are in danger of the judgment.

Dont you get it?

Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1Jn:2:7: Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

a new commandment, yet not really new, the same old commandments you have been told from the beginning.

GET IT???

They had been in darkness as to the true character of God and of His Law.

Its too bad so many are still in the same darkness today or else they would recognize these things.

its not ok today to break the Sabbath any more than it is ok to go out and kill your ngeighbor or worship idols.

The Law of God is a "package" and the WHOLE LAW hangs on these two main ideas of love God and love your neighbor. Is this so difficult to comprehend?

Romans 13:
8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

"and if there be any other commandment".


Who among you fancies themselves to put themselves in the place of the Almighty and decide one of the commandments has changed?

Mt:5:18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

..did heaven and earth pass away while I was asleep and I just dont realize it yet? a jot and tittle means dotting of an i and crossing of a t... not one LETTER OF THE LAW will pass away. Isnt that clear to us all?

Jesus came to "magnify the Law" and bring honor back to it by showing how it really ought to have been kept all along. Not as the Pharisees kept it, outwardly while inwardly they were "whited walls"..

It is prophesied of Him:
Isa:42:21: The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Jesus did not leave people to die on the side of the road just because it was the Sabbath day. Dont you understand what He came to teach? "Show us the Father".. "When you see Me you have seen the Father"... dont you all get it?

He showed the people how to keep the Law, he didnt come to eliminate the Law... He came to MAGNIFY the Law and bring it back to its rightful place.

Claudia

 

....sorry but it is just absolutely beyond me how people cannot comprehend these things. Especially when the Bible is so simple and clear about it all.

It is frustrating to have to keep explaining it over and over again.

It never ceases to amaze me.

 

You see, the REAL problem here is that too many Christians view the God of the Old Testament as LEGALISTIC... and then they see Jesus as "the nice loving one"..

And so they have no problem with trying to obliterate God's Ten Commandment Law... or at least the part of it they dont like, which is the Sabbath, they usually have no problem with the other 9 commandments.

And so they have this idea that Jesus came to somehow liberate us from that mean old legalistic God of the past...

But they just do not comprehend that when you see "Jesus you see the Father". That is what Jesus same to show us... THE FATHER.

Jesus came to wipe away all of the old misapprehensions about God.

Satan has ALWAYS tried to paint God out to be mean, tyrannical, vindictive... Jesus came to wipe away the lies told about His Father.

He came to restore the Law of God to it's rightful place... the keeping of the Law in the inner man... not just outward legalistic observance.

And when Jesus showed us the proper way to keep the Sabbath, He did not start observing it on some other day!

He kept the 7th day Sabbath and He kept it RIGHT.

He put the love back into the Law where it rightfully belongs.

It was there all along. They just forgot about it.

Mt:23:23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Lk:11:42: But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


do you know what it means to not leave the other UNDONE??

Jesus was not trying to wipe out the Law... He was trying to restore the Law to its rightful place.

Sometimes I just wish I could pull the blinders off of those who just cannot seem to see these things. And I wonder how to get through to them or else is it that they know it but just dont want to do what God says?



Claudia

 

That didn't take long.

So are you willing to show where your view allows Christ's statement in Mark 2:27 "to be true"??

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Bob,

Is your smugness a by-product of your denial? Let's review some other Adventist doctrine. Is hell eternal? Is Ellen White a true prophet? Is Jesus Michael the Arch Angel? Is being a vegetarian scriptural? I am quite familiar with Adventist doctrine Bob.The Sabbath issue is really quite minor compared to the major error in doctrine that the SDA church teaches. The Sabbath issue is not a salvation issue, although the SDA doctrinal conclusion that everyone who worships on Sunday has the mark of the beast is a little skewed. The other stuff is a bit more serious.

 

-----------------------------------------
So are you willing to show where your view allows Christ's statement in Mark 2:27 "to be true"??

---------------------------------------

As substantive as that reply was to my question about Mark 2:27. Do you yet have an answer for how your view allows Christ's words to be true when "HE" Said that the Sabbath was "MADE" for Mankind?

Or are you still bent on dodging the question?

In Christ,

Bob

 

I am seeing that problem played out in living color with the refusal on this thread to address the words of Christ in Mark 2:27 and the "Specific detail" of "Made for Mankind".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Tell you what - I will go into Col 2 since it does NOT say "We are not under the Mosaic Law" and you go into the "inconvenient detail" of the Words of Christ in Mark 2:27.

Me first.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Col 2 Part - A

Where we do not find the phrase "not under the Mosaic Law"

Here Christ is presented as the only solution for our sin problem. The goal of making us alive by accomplishing forgiveness of sins for us.

Christ represents all of God - not some small nice-but-insufficient bifurcation of God. The totality of God in power, word, knowledge and love is embodied in Christ. The error then (as today) was apparently in dissecting God - Christ was "this part of God but not that old part of God".

Paul focuses on the problem - sin causing separation and requiring forgiveness of sin via payment of our eternal death - debt - for us to survive.

Christ's death (payment for our sin) that accomplishes the solution "forgiving us all our transgressions".

In this way Paul eliminates the basis for false teachers to come in and say that Christ was "insufficient" and a works-based religion is needed. They could not then argue that we still owe a debt of sin, and must achieve the goal (forgiveness) by some other means. (A means that seems to include listening to “their vain philosophy” fables and deceit and judged by their man-made tradition. according to vs 8)

-----------------------------------------------------

Notice the context is that of making you alive solving the problem of you being dead in transgression.

What defines what sin is??
(Rom 5, 7 tell us that the law defines what sin is - it is not a "record of guilt" but a standard of perfect sinless righteousness)

What defines our transgression?

Clearly it is defined by a record of which sins we commit and how often. A record of some kind must exist to show what each individual owes "according to his deeds"

Clearly the "decrees against us" are written in these books out of which each person is judged "according to their deeds".

So then, what records/defines what each person's debt is? The law is the basis for knowing what is sin, but it is not the transaction of judgment specific to each individual - it is not a “record of guilt” it is instead a standard of judgment. It is the authoritative legal basis upon which judgment is rendered the standard that is compared to the life and actual deeds of each human. The resulting judgment then shows exactly where each one falls short of the glory of God. All are placed under condemnation and incur a debt of sin specific to their actual sins. The Holy Just and true “the spiritual Law of God” (Rom 7) is not that record of sin – it is not the “certificate of debt owed”.

The books of record show our "debt" they record each deed and also determine the debt owed - the "certificate of debt".

However - it is not the books of record that are "nailed to the cross" - rather it is the "debt" that they say each individual "owes". The certificate of debt that they decree as owed (a decree made by comparing our lives against the perfect standard - God's Law), is what is nailed to the cross and stamped "paid in full". And this - for every one of mankind.

But to avail ourselves of that cancelled debt - we must choose Christ - choose to be born again - to have the LAW of God written in our heart - instead of nailed and done away with. To have the new creation that walks after the spirit - instead of rebelling against the Law of God - being hostile to God's Law - refusing to submit and indeed UNNABLE to submit to it (Roman 8:5-8)

Christ took the "stroke due us" the debt of death (Rom 623) was paid, nailed to the cross. It is the debt that is paid - the "certificate of debt" which itself "consists of decrees against us" faithfully records our deeds and what is owed individually -- and Christ pays the debt accumulated by each one of us.

Obviously when the police write out a ticket with a fine attached, then when the fine is canceled (via payment) - the law that defines obedience and violation - is not also cancelled.

Also note that the law that defines our sin - is not some local law specific only to the Hebrew nation. (as if only Hebrews need a savior)

God's law places all under condemnation.

Notice that in Galatians 3 Paul equates the law known to NT saints with “scripture” known to NT saints. God’s infallible word places all mankind “under sin” telling the truth – that we are all sinners and in need of a savior – someone who will pay our debt and redeem us.

It must be the law that defines debt and for which the cross was intended as payment. That can only be one law - the moral law. (without it there is no debt, no sin Rom 5).

Rom 5:13 sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 4:14 15 for the law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

 

Col 2 Part - B

Where we do not find the phrase "Not under the Mosaic Law".

Col 2:16 refers to “SabbathS” plural that are the “predictive” SHADOW Sabbaths of Lev 23 pointing FORWARD in “sacrifices” to the death of the Messiah. Notice the point Paul makes of this in 1Cor 5 “Christ OUR PASSOVER has been SACRIFICED”. These SHADOW SabbathS point FORWARD and are based in animal SACRIFICE pointing to the death of Christ.

Christ the Creator’s Seventh-day Sabbath “by contrast” is a MEMORIAL given in Gen 2:3 as THE Holy Day of worship for mankind “made FOR mankind” – without any reference at all to its origin being “IN ANIMAL sacrifice”.

So the fact of the plural LIST of SabbathS given in Lev 23 combined with the SHADOW function (predictive function) of the annual SabbathS based in animal Sacrifices – identifies the object clearly in Col 2:16 as the Annual Sabbaths!


Col 2:16 refers explicitly to judging one another (within the Christian group) regarding our observance of food and drink regulations, festivals, new moon celebrations, "or a Sabbath day". This is not a new sin that became sin only after the cross - rather judging one another was sin before anything was nailed to the cross (Matt 7:1-4). “Judge NOT that you be not JUDGED” a PRE-Cross violation regardless of whether it is ANNUAL or WEEKLY – the PRE-Cross rule was not to judge others on how well they observed it..

Furthermore - Col 2:16 identifies the things about which they were judged to include the things of God - whose origin was in the word of God - his shadow (predictive) Sabbaths given in Lev 23. "things which are a mere shadow of things to come". That is, things which point not to present or past reality but to a future events that "belong to Christ". Things already given for the people of God - prior to Paul's day that pointed predictively toward the messiah when given.

These annual feast days -- shadow Sabbaths -- point forward to a future event regarding the Messiah. But “the traditions of man” had turned these “shadow Sabbaths” into a kind of alternative to the Savior who died for our sins and paid our debt. Their judgmental spirit is condemned in the Matt 7 statement of Christ saying “Judge not that you be not judged” and Paul says that even after the cross – the spirit if judging was not to be tolerated. In Romans 14 Paul observes of these annual feast days "one observes every day and another observes one above another but all observe to the Lord" Rom 14,

==========================================================

If the shadow for Sabbath was the eternal life in heaven - if that were the fulfillment of the salvation promise in Sabbath – “then” it would not be fulfilled yet so there would be no excuse for ignoring Christ the Creator’s Holy day today. More than this – once we get to the New Earth –all has been fulfilled – all of salvation history is over – but even then – Sabbath is not “done away”. As mentioned in Isaiah 66 Sabbath is applicable even in the new heavens and the new earth.

Hebrews 4:

Hebrews 4 shows that the term "today" effective in Psalms 95 is the day of salvation and was in effect pre-cross without impacting the real Sabbath. There is no case in scripture where the term "a Sabbath day" is used to denote the Sabbath - rather the gospels always use the term "the Sabbath day". But the telling fact is that this is not a memorial of the past but a shadow of the future according to Col 2 - the content of the Sabbath commandment shows it to be a memorial of the past.

All other Sabbaths contain the sacrificial elements (that define them) and are shadows of the coming sacrifice of Christ in their day.

Note: Christ the Creator’s Holy day Sabbath as given in Gen 2:3 had no defining sacrifice and was given before sin entered the world - adding salvation rest to a Sabbath symbol that existed before sin does not abolish the Sabbath. Even using Isaiah 66 and declaring that it’s fulfillment is not until we reach heaven -- does not abolish the Sabbath today in any case.

Note: Christ the Creator’s weekly 7th day Sabbath memorial of His creative act in Gen 1-2:3, is not explicitly mentioned in Col 2.

Paul makes it clear in Col 2 that the Sabbaths mentioned are those that are shadows of the future event and have no substance apart from that component. The 7th-day Sabbath does have it's origin apart from any promise of a future sacrifice for sin. It was sanctified, set apart and made holy - for man pre-sin. Genesis 2:1-4.

Shadow Sabbaths are mentioned - Sabbath days that are a shadow. This is undeniably the ceremonial shadow Sabbaths predicting future events as they do and given in the context of sin with the origin after the fall of man into sin the 7th day Sabbath with the origin in creation week - before both Jew and sin - would not fit this model and does not point to redemption from sin as it's purpose. Rather it was fulfilled in genesis 2 as God rested and established the day making it a holy day and setting it apart (explicitly sanctifying it).

Col 2 mentions only the shadow Sabbaths that had no substance apart from the sacrifice for sin offered by Christ.

To get the weekly Sabbath into this text explicitly you would need some work on the text.

One more point on Colossians 2 - the only thing nailed to the cross is "the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us". This certificate of debt is our debt of sin owed for rebellion against God. Rather than saying "Hey! There is now no such thing as rebellion, I killed my own law" God said "fine, I have paid the debt owed and all may accept the payment I freely offer".

Interesting that this text does not argue that the restrictions/regulations found in God's word are no longer valid, or have fallen out of use, or should not be observed. He argues instead against the human-manufactured error of judging others as they relate to these truths.

Here he is correcting the abuse of the system - not abolishing the system itself.

----------------------------------

In Lev 23 we observe that not all of the annual feast days are Sabbath days – but they typically include a feastival-Sabbath day in the list of days. Passover and the feast of unleavened bread being a perfect example of a festival that has both Sabbath and non-Sabbath days.

Col 2:16 refers explicitly to judging one another (within the Christian group) regarding our observance of food and drink regulations, festivals, new moon celebrations, "or a Sabbath day" ... Explicitly those "things which are a mere shadow of things to come". That is, things which point not to present or past reality but to a future event that "belongs to Christ". Things already given for the people of God - prior to Paul's day.

This text does not argue that the restrictions/regulations are no longer valid, or have fallen out of use, or should not be observed. He argues that judging others as they relate to these truths - is invalid. In fact, invalid in all ages.

In verse 18 Paul covers a much more sinister subject those that "delight in self-abasement, worship of angels...visions inflated without cause by his fleshly mind"

Here the emphasis is not judging our adherence to such truths - but the fact that these things themselves are error. They have "the appearance of self-made religion". Scripture is not self-made. Paul addresses both the subject of judging others regarding the shadow regulations (future pointing - shadow - not past memorializing). Paul himself continued to observe these future pointing festivals and did not discourage his fellow Jews from doing the same

Paul is not condemning his own practice here, he is condemning those that judge others regarding these practices. (in one part) and condemning purely man-made practices in the other. It was a two pronged attack against a two-fold problem.

The correction of the abuses of a system can not be used as an argument for the obliteration of that system.

This same problem comes up in Rom 14 but is compounded by the eating of meat offered to idols. Which is why it starts out with the admonition "he who has faith eats all things but he who is weak eats vegetables only".

There is no Jewish requirement to eat vegetables only. Romans 14 had to do strictly with meat offered to idols. But also address the old Col 2:16 problem - that of judging one another regarding the other biblical injunctions found in Leviticus' shadow feasts.

And of course well it is to suppose that Paul would continue to meet the meat-offered-to-idols issue without being free to say - just go ahead and eat it. Since the Jerusalem elders had already decided

see 1Cor8 for an even more detail discussion of the same topic.

Paul clearly identifies all that is condemned as "man made" or "self-made" religion (not originating from God - but from man) and declares that these have no power to actually stop fleshly indulgence. No wisdom, no power in these errors.

Of course Col 2 also deals with abuses of true doctrine given by God and also the invention of prayers to angels etc.

Col 2 is a compound answer to a complex multi-part problem.

 

Commentary on Col 2:16

 

As substantive as that reply was to my question about Mark 2:27. Do you yet have an answer for how your view allows Christ's words to be true when "HE" Said that the Sabbath was "MADE" for Mankind?

Or are you still bent on dodging the question?

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Bob,

It is quite obvious that you are avoiding adressing issues that could compromise sound Biblical doctrine, while focusing on the Sabbath issue, which is not a salvation issue.Celebrate as you wish, but the SDA church needs to re-examine some crucial issues.(as well as the mainstream churches in other areas)

Since the SDA's are vegetarians, how can they celebrate the feasts stipulated in the Hebrew Scriptures which require eating meat then? This is where the footwork starts about ceremonial law vs commandments.Were not the feasts ordained by God Almighty himself? Remember the scripture about keeping the whole law?

 

More substantive response to Linda's question about Col 2.

Now I wait for the "substantive" response to my question regarding Christ's own words in Mark 2:27.

Surely "HE" is someone worth reading.

In Christ,

Bob