Which is worse?

[dianetavegia]

Jesus told the woman at the well to 'Go and Sin no more'. He cleansed Mary of Magdela of demons.

But Bro. James, you're taking power from the cross of our Lord Jesus if you say He is able not able to forgive and forget the divorce! The 'divorce, being repented of and forgiven/ forgotten, cleans the slate for the believer to marry again. I'm talking TRUE repentence here and not some 'Gosh, I'm sorry God so forget about it okay?'.

Bro. James, I am against divorce even for adultery. Jesus told us to forgive our brother seventy times seven. However, again... my God is able to forgive, forget and remember those sins no more! This is straight from scripture!

Hebrews 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. 15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," 17 then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

BEING SANCTIFIED.... We are NOT perfect and won't be until Jesus returns! I WILL REMEMBER THEM NO MORE..... The divorce is GONE! Abortion is GONE. Lying, cheating, lust, fornication, adultery, gossip... GONE as soon as a believer REPENTS! Jesus sat down at the right hand of God. You're putting Him back up on the cross over and over and over..... by implying the ONE sacrifice wasn't strong enough or powerful enough to forgive divorce. That breaks my heart!

It must be so hard on you and Adopted Daughter being the only sin free people alive! Wow!

Diane

 

[wizofoz]

If I get divorced for non-Biblical reasons and I remarry, then I'm committing adultery, as the Bible CLEARLY says. I would then need to repent. If I repent, I then need to sin no more; in other words, stop the sin that I'm doing. If I stay merried to that same person, I'm still in the same adulterous relationship that I was in before I repented. Therefore, I am not truly being repentant.

What do you suggest? Divorce? No, that would compound the "sin", wouldn't it?
Pray that the first wife dies? Ask that she kill herself so you can be freed from that sin?
By your reasoning, I should leave my church in disgrace, since I am in an "adulterous" relationship.

I resent that remark! I believe what I believe because the Bible says it. It's not my fault that people in the world want to warp the truth to fit in with their own beliefs about accepting divorce.

I resent being judged by people like you as living in perpetual sin, simply because you interpret scripture to fit your opinion.

BaptistinRichmond asked Adopted Daughter:

What Scripture supports your assertion that adultery is a continual sin for a divorced person?

No one has provided this supporting scripture yet.
Can you?

 

[SaggyWoman]

This is kind of confusing.

1.) The act of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Having a baby outside of marriage is not a sin--it is a result or a consequence of sin.

2.) Unless a person continues in sin (continuing to have sex outside of marriage) then how is living with a child who both parents are not married a sin? The act of living is not sin. The child is not in sin. If the parents stopped having sex, there is no continuance of sin.

What is up with that?

 

[SaggyWoman]

Marriage is not the great correct all. If not a godly marriage, how can marrying the other parent of your child be necessarily right or wrong?

 

[Istherenotacause]

Wiz, I believe it's the one where Jesus said, "Ye are whited sepulchres, full of extortion and excess, ye make white the outside of the cup and the platter, but inside ye are full of dead men's bones" Another would be that one where it says something like,"Death and misery are in their ways, the ways of peace they have not known..."

I believe the Judaisers are trying cause as much misery to others as they are full of misery themselves, failing to see the truth concerning forgiveness of sins.


What about this scripture?

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christs sake hath forgiven you.

Notice that word is "forgiven" in the past perfect tense, not "is forgiving". We are to be forgiving, but in the eyes of God we are already "forgiven", so the need to be forgiving is expedient. This one aspect of the Christian life is expedient for all who desire to be forgiven, examine the "Model Prayer" and consult the reasoning of forgiveness, it is so that we too are forgiven:

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

But then why stop there?

22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

An "evil" eye is one that is corrupt, y'know, like the corruption that comes from having a "beam" in your eye.

This may look familiar to a certain BB member who recently received something quite similar recently in a PM.

It was deemed as a "little sermon", I will call it a message from God.

In His Holy Service,

Brother Ricky

 

[Istherenotacause]

Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
This is kind of confusing.

1.) The act of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Having a baby outside of marriage is not a sin--it is a result or a consequence of sin.

2.) Unless a person continues in sin (continuing to have sex outside of marriage) then how is living with a child who both parents are not married a sin? The act of living is not sin. The child is not in sin. If the parents stopped having sex, there is no continuance of sin.

What is up with that?

Hi, Saggy. I believe it's the same old "put all the emphasis on the sex and not the vow" aspect. Those who place ALL the importance on "sex" as the governing factor.

In Christ,

Brother Ricky

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Originally posted by wizofoz:
BIR, there is none that I know of.

It's a case of "I believe what I believe because I believe it, and you can't change my mind."

Adopteddaughter, do you have any friends who have remarried? If so, do you condemn them to a life of sin?
Sad, so sad......

Yes I do have remarried friends, and I do not agree with their lifestyle if they are not abstaining.

Who and where did I ever condemn anyone? The proof? He who marries another commits adultery, and this is where we must use our knowledge of the scriptures.

 

[Johnv]

So, having said all that, my question would be which is "worse," remarriage after divorce, or having a child out of wedlock??

It's not a matter of "what's worse", it's a matter of whether or not getting married because of pregnancy is appropriate.

I would never encourage a couple to marry just because they made a mistake. That's not a good reason to marry, and statistics show that these marriages invariably end up in divorce.

The exception, of course, is if the couple involved was planning on getting married anyway. If that were the case, I'd say get married this weekend.

 

[Johnv]

He who marries another commits adultery, and this is where we must use our knowledge of the scriptures.

You can't commit adultery unless you have a spouse. The bible expressly allows divorce in cases of infidelity, and implies allowing divorce in cases of abandonment.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Bro. James Reed writes:
>>If I get divorced for non-Biblical reasons and
>>I remarry, then I'm committing adultery, as the
>>Bible CLEARLY says. I would then need to
>>repent.

That has been established as a Biblical doctrine, and nobody has disputed this thus far.

>>If I repent, I then need to sin no more; in
>>other words, stop the sin that I'm doing. If I
>>stay merried to that same person, I'm still in
>>the same adulterous relationship that I was in
>>before I repented. Therefore, I am not truly
>>being repentant.

You have not provided one Scriptural Passage that supports your assumption. If repented, then the adultery is forgiven. Please provide me with the Scripture that supports this follow-up statement to the doctrine presented in the preceding sentences.
I believe that I Corinthians 7 applies to the new marriage ("unto the married") after God forgives the sin of adultery. Are you saying that this doesn't apply to the new marriage as well? Provide the Scripture that supports your contention. Following your logic, Esther and Bathsheba sinned every time they were intimate with their husbands.

>>It's not my fault that people in the world want
>>to warp the truth to fit in with their own
>>beliefs about accepting divorce.

One more time, provide the Scripture that supports your contention.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

AdoptedDaughter writes:

>>The proof? He who marries another commits
>>adultery, and this is where we must use our
>>knowledge of the scriptures.

In the other thread, you maintain that divorce is adultery. There is sufficient Scripture to support this, and I cannot recall anyone disputing this. You, however, took it a step further: you told a fellow Believer (who happens to be divorced) that she commits adultery every time she is intimate with her second husband. That statement is not Scriptural. I challenged you to prove this belief and you have not provided one Verse that specifically supports your claim. I suppose that you believe that the forgiven sin of adultery negates the rules of marriage outlined in I Corinthians.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

You knwo, it never ceases to amaze me how some people can look at scripture and completely ignore it.

Let me state, one more time, if you continue to live in sin, you have to continually be repentant of that sin. If you are living in sin, and thus far it seems to me that there are some who aren't even repentant about it, you need to quit sinning. Do we treat homosexuals the same way? If one says, "well, I know I'm doing wrong, so I'll ask God to forgive me, BUT I'm not going to quit having sex with men," is that any different than the same applying to a heterosexual couple?

If so, please explain. All I see is sin, and sin needs to be avoided. How dare we ask for forgiveness of sins when we REFUSE to turn away from sin.

I have shown enough scripture. If you don't want to believe the scripture I have given, then I'm not going to change your mind with more.

BTW, when did I ever say I was perfect? I try to be, and that means trying to live a sin free life. Of course, I'm going to sin, but I also ask for forgiveness of those sins, AND I turn away from those sins. What you're saying is, you can be forgiven for the sin of unbiblical divore and remarriage, and you can also continue to commit that sin. I don't think so.

It really burns me to see people corrupt the word of God to fit into worldly teachings.

Obviously, you can not put murder in this same category. If you've asked for forgiveness of murder, do you go out and do it again? After all, you've been forgiven. Come on. If you stay in an unbiblical marriage, you are remaining in that sin. Please explain to me why you believe you can be forgiven and still remain in that same sinful situation? You can't. I'm sorry, but God does not change His word simply because you feel right in getting divorced and remarried.

Please tell me, would this same thing also work in a homosexual relationship? After all, they can legally get married now. Once they ask for forgiveness, is it then okay to stay in that relationship? Tell me, please, what is the difference?

 

[wizofoz]

I have shown enough scripture. If you don't want to believe the scripture I have given, then I'm not going to change your mind with more.

Translation: I can't find scripture to back it up.

Let me state, one more time, if you continue to live in sin, you have to continually be repentant of that sin. If you are living in sin, and thus far it seems to me that there are some who aren't even repentant about it, you need to quit sinning.

Let me ask one more time, do I divorce my wife now? Or ask my ex to kill herself? How do I stop this perpetual state of sin I seem to be in without committing another one?

Do we treat homosexuals the same way? If one says, "well, I know I'm doing wrong, so I'll ask God to forgive me, BUT I'm not going to quit having sex with men," is that any different than the same applying to a heterosexual couple?

God did not condemn heterosexual marriages, last I heard. Apples and oranges.

It really burns me to see people corrupt the word of God to fit into worldly teachings.

Yeah, me too. Especially when they want to make themselves look more holy than us "heathen sinners".

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Translation: I can't find scripture to back it up.

Umm, actually, it means I'm tired of arguing with someone who is obviously not going to agree with me. Do you want to continue arguing? I'm not going to agree with you either, so there is no longer fruitful converstaion going on here. It's turning into name calling, which, I'm sorry to say, I have started too. I apologize.

I don't know how to "fix" your situation. All I know is what the Bible tells me shouldn't have been done in the first place.

I never said you couldn't be forgiven. All I said is that it doesn't seem to me that it's heartfelt if you continue to do it.

BTW, I've already given scripture. Go back and read some of it. I know, I'll end up posting the entire Bible and then you'll say, "Is that all you've got? Show me more" and I'll say, "That's all there is." Then you'll say, "so you don't have any scripture, huh?"

You see, this will never end, so let's back out gracefully before we start slinging more mud.

God Bless. Bro. James

P.S. I am, at least, glad that you are at peace about it. The Bible says it's better to be on one side or the other, instead of lukewarm about any issue. I think we can both claim not to be lukewarm.

 

[hsmom3]

Two wrongs don't make a right, right? To divorce for unscriptural reasons and remarry is one wrong. To divorce again is another wrong. It would not be right to tear another family apart and hurt more children. You don't commit a sin to get right with God! We just don't do that, brothers and sisters! Just start over where you are and start living for Jesus!!

As for abstaining from relations in a 2nd marriage, sex doesn't make a marriage. What constitutes adultery? Is it just sex? Is it a kiss? I tell you one thing, if I had a husband that kissed another woman, talked to her, spent time with her and lived with her, but had no sex, I'd STILL view that as adultery. If all the above are adultery, then the couple could not kiss or talk or be friends or anything, much less live together. If a couple were to abstain from relations, no matter what marriage it is, they are directly disobeying the Word. They are opening the door wide-open to an affair and sorrow.

I'm so glad our Lord washes our sins away and remembers them no more!

(I hope I made sense....don't seem to be able to articulate my thoughts well.

)

hsmom3

 

[hsmom3]

Oops! Double post! Sorry folks.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Bro. James Reed writes:
>>You knwo[sic], it never ceases to amaze me how
>>some people can look at scripture and
>>completely ignore it.
>> <snip>
>>I have shown enough scripture. If you don't
>>want to believe the scripture I have given,
>>then I'm not going to change your mind with
>>more.

No sir, you did not.
You have demonstrated that divorce is adultery. That is all. You have given absolutely no proof whatsoever for your claim that sexual relations with the new spouse is adultery. Claim it all you want: you have not done it.
Show me the Scripture that supports this claim, and overrides what the Apostle Paul outlined in I Corinthians ("to the married"). You have not done it thus far, and claiming that you have does not constitute proof.

>>It really burns me to see people corrupt the
>>word of God to fit into worldly teachings.

I feel the same way about claiming personal conviction as Biblical doctrine......

 

[Johnv]

I tell you one thing, if I had a husband that kissed another woman, talked to her, spent time with her and lived with her, but had no sex, I'd STILL view that as adultery.

Very good. I'm sooo glad someone else besides me thinks that!!!! I've unfortunately known several men and women who have speant time with a person of the opposite sex and engaged with them as they should with their spouses, but have not had sex, and they don't think this constitutes adultery. I tend to disagree, since it's adultery of the heart, which is adultery plain and simple.

 

[wizofoz]

(I hope I made sense....don't seem to be able to articulate my thoughts well. )

Perfect sense, hsmom. No way I could add anything to that post.

 

[hsmom3]

I forgot to address the original question.

So, having said all that, my question would be which is "worse," remarriage after divorce, or having a child out of wedlock??

I don't think either one is WORSE, as God views all sin the same, but all sins have different consequences, varying in harshness. It's interesting to note that neither remarriage after divorce nor having a child out of wedlock are on God's list of 7 things He hates in Proverbs.

I think our society doesn't look on unwed pregnancies as severely as they used to. I don't know if that is good or bad. I certainly don't look bad on them because I'm so thankful that the dear mother chooses life!

hsmom3