Which online seminary?

[Havensdad]

Right or wrong, TRACS accreditation doesn't do much beyond making the programs eligible for federal aid. If a program isn't RA, its degrees have a hard time getting recognized.

I have to strongly disagree with you. I might not have, had you limited your comments to TRACS (although even TRACS helps acceptance, somewhat). But if a program is accredited by ATS, or to a lesser degree, DETC, this absolutely helps them get recognized.

Many schools list as a prerequisite for entrance that the university is "accredited by an organization recognized by the CHEA". I know that according to the last statistics I looked at, 70 percent of regionally accredited colleges and universities accepted transfer credits from DETC. The number is much higher for acceptance of degrees into higher programs (for instance, a Bachelor's from a DETC accredited school, for entrance into a Master's degree program).

And I am quite sure the number is even higher than that (probably 100 percent, or close to it), for acceptance of ATS accredited Seminary degrees...

 

[StefanM]

I have to strongly disagree with you. I might not have, had you limited your comments to TRACS (although even TRACS helps acceptance, somewhat). But if a program is accredited by ATS, or to a lesser degree, DETC, this absolutely helps them get recognized.

Many schools list as a prerequisite for entrance that the university is "accredited by an organization recognized by the CHEA". I know that according to the last statistics I looked at, 70 percent of regionally accredited colleges and universities accepted transfer credits from DETC. The number is much higher for acceptance of degrees into higher programs (for instance, a Bachelor's from a DETC accredited school, for entrance into a Master's degree program).

And I am quite sure the number is even higher than that (probably 100 percent, or close to it), for acceptance of ATS accredited Seminary degrees...

I didn't say it was impossible; it's just more difficult. When a school has RA, the presumption is different. A school may still be recognized with other accreditation, but it's still an uphill climb.

ATS is its own beast. The vast majority of ATS schools are also RA, although a few ATS only schools exist. In the theological realm, ATS accreditation is generally the standard, so this helps. However, it is possible to run into difficulties trying to teach with an ATS-only degree that an RA degree would not cause.

I believe the statistic you cited comes from an interview at http://distancelearn.about.com/od/accreditationinfo/a/DETC_Interview.htm

The CEO of the DETC indicated that 70% of graduates were successful, not that 70% of RA schools would accept the credits. There is a difference. If your statistics come from another source, then this may not apply.

The problem with TRACS and the DETC comes with the perception of their quality. The perception is that a TRACS or DETC accredited school would not be able to be accredited by one of the six regional accrediting bodies. ATS accreditation does not suffer from this perception because most ATS schools are also regionally accredited.

The perception of TRACS is only confirmed when you consider the fact that Liberty University (SACS accredited) essentially dumped TRACS because it was pointless after already having SACS accreditation. The reason for this is that TRACS adds no value. ATS does add value (in perception), so it is a different situation.

As a side note, I think TRACS accreditation would be better used as a conservative alternative to ATS. TRACS accredits too many "iffy" institutions to be taken seriously.

 

[Rhetorician]

Offered Help

Gentlemen:

See this related discussion on the BB for some, what I think to be, helpful insight.

Enjoy!!

http://baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=65739

"That is all!" :wavey:

 

[TomVols]

Remember that ATS is a specialized accrediting agency, much like DETC. They accredit one particular type of school. Their usefulness will be determined by the beholder. Many believe, and I argue this as well, that ATS has lost some of its luster. The trend seems to be for many evangelicals to be RA and forego the ATS accreditation. Right or wrong, it is what it is.

Rockbridge, the new all online seminary started with a lot of input from Daryl Eldridge (SWBTS) and Rick Warren is going to be RA only, they hope. Time will tell. Right now, it has no accreditation.

 

[Greektim]

Due to being in the Navy, I am looking for a school that offers a 100% online Masters in Ministry, Bible, Christian Leadership, or something of that nature that I can add on to later in my career when I have a little more time to get the Masters in Divinity. I sat down with my Pastor about it and mentioned that I had been looking at Liberty University and Peidmont Baptist College, both of which he said were pretty liberal. As an Independent Fundament Baptist, are there any accredited schools that you can suggest for me? Maranatha is one that my Pastor mentioned, any other suggestions?

Piedmont Baptist College and Grad School is NOT liberal. In fact, I would say they are more conservative than LU. On what basis was your pastor making these claims???

 

[KRay]

Piedmont Baptist College and Grad School is NOT liberal. In fact, I would say they are more conservative than LU. On what basis was your pastor making these claims???

I'm not sure of his concerns with PBC. I am going to go shoot targets with my Pastor this Friday and discuss it in a little more depth. If he clarifies his beliefs of LU or PBC being liberal schools, I will post it here.

 

[olefundybob]

My THM is from Fuller. It is a minimal evangelical school that has had two lesbian professors and some Neo Orthodox professors. They do have liberal theology mixed with evangelical theology. I struggled through two courses by the renown George Ladd. He gave me good grades on my research in spite of my Dispensational view but he was an incurable alcoholic and you never knew what his attitude would be. He died in his alcoholism.

Some seminaries are accredited by regional accrediting associations which is as good as one can get. ATS accreditation has been shunned by several evangelical seminaries. TRACS accreditation is legitimate and acceptable but not as acceptable as normal regional accreditation. LU has regional accreditation.

 

[Mississippi John]

I think Oral Roberts U. may be where you fit in.

Or continue to be an effective minister to all peoples you encounter....and forget "formal" schooling.

I suggest you research the counter- opinions to absolute fundamentalism.

Check out sermons by : Gerald Mann, Grady Nutt, Chuck Poole, Will Campbell, Thomas Merton, Walter Shurden and anybody else that the Fundies label a "libbie".

Compare your findings...and find out where you really belong.

 

[Havensdad]

Or continue to be an effective minister to all peoples you encounter....and forget "formal" schooling.

Yes by all means, do not prepare yourself properly...

"Formal" schooling in terms of seminary is studying the Word of God, and the History of His people, under Godly men. Those who shun it, will pay a heavy price in not being fully prepared.

 

[Siberian]

Right or wrong, TRACS accreditation doesn't do much beyond making the programs eligible for federal aid. If a program isn't RA, its degrees have a hard time getting recognized.

This is not correct. In fact, a degree from Luther Rice will be recognized by several RA institutions, the US Government (for chaplaincy, etc.) and many, many churches.

 

[StefanM]

This is not correct. In fact, a degree from Luther Rice will be recognized by several RA institutions, the US Government (for chaplaincy, etc.) and many, many churches.

I'm speaking of the realm of academia. If a degree isn't RA, you won't be able to teach with it at an RA institution, for sure.

There are always instances where a non-RA degree may be accepted for transfer credits or admission, but this is generally done on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Siberian]

I'm speaking of the realm of academia. If a degree isn't RA, you won't be able to teach with it at an RA institution, for sure.

There are always instances where a non-RA degree may be accepted for transfer credits or admission, but this is generally done on a case-by-case basis.

This also is not correct, and a little pointless since the OP does not seem to want to become a professor. How many people attend a Seminary to be teachers? Most of us want training to minister to the assembly.

Comments like yours and others that consistently follow any post about Luther Rice Seminary are discouraging. One might assume that a degree (like mine) from a TRACS school like LRS is useless (except that they qualify for financial aid - as you said). Yet, I was admitted without condition to D.Min programs at two RA schools (I was fishing). Neither of the schools indicated that my acceptance was considered an exception (as your 'case by case' comment implies).

Can I teach with my degree? Yes, possibly - if I were so inclined and that particular job market opened up (two huge ifs). I could earn a MTh at UNISA or SATS, etc. and then enter a research doctoral program at a R.A. school. That is not too different than what someone with an M.Div. from a R.A.-only school would have to do if he wanted to teach.

 

[StefanM]

1) You may not become a professor, but adjuncting is a possibility with an RA degree. You lose this option at RA schools with a non-RA degree.

2) I didn't intend to imply that a TRACS-accredited school is useless. I am simply saying that accreditation by TRACS doesn't really add all that much utility to the degree . There is a perception that TRACS is one of the "lesser" accreditation agencies. Fair or otherwise, this perception exists.

3) Some TRACS-accredited schools have excellent programs. BJU is probably the most famous example. Of course, BJU grads were making headway with unaccredited degrees. TRACS accreditation didn't make the school any better.

4) I don't have a problem with LRU, personally. I really would like for them to obtain RA because I really think that Baptists would benefit by having another major player in DL seminary education. Liberty is pretty much the 500 lb gorilla here because it allows degrees by distance and is SACS-accredited.

5) The biggest problem that I have with TRACS is the way it has positioned itself. ABHE-style accreditation would be nice and well-respected. TRACS, however, appears to have taken the position as "accreditor of last resort" for Christian schools.

My point with TRACS is that it isn't really a significant measure of quality. If a school is good, it can be good without accreditation or with accreditation. The point of accreditation is to ensure minimal standards. The problem is that TRACS assures a more "minimal" standard than the RA agencies.

 

[Martin]

Comments like yours and others that consistently follow any post about Luther Rice Seminary are discouraging. One might assume that a degree (like mine) from a TRACS school like LRS is useless (except that they qualify for financial aid - as you said).

There is nothing wrong with Luther Rice University, Piedmont Baptist College, or Southern Evangelical Seminary. Each of those schools are accredited only by TRACS. Nothing in the world wrong with that. However possible students, who wish to teach or transfer to DMin/PhD programs, need to be aware that TRACS only schools enjoy limited acceptance in the world of academics. For purposes of ministry (pastor, missionary, personal achievement, etc) none of that really matters. Its all about purpose.

Yet, I was admitted without condition to D.Min programs at two RA schools (I was fishing). Neither of the schools indicated that my acceptance was considered an exception (as your 'case by case' comment implies).

Several years ago I did a survey of several major seminaries. I asked if they would accept/honor graduate degrees (MA/MDiv) from Luther Rice University. While the results were mixed, the majority said no or said they would if the credits/degrees were earned oncampus. A few major seminaries said they would accept degrees from schools like LRU. Among those were Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. Schools such as Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School said no. So the acceptance of degrees/credits from TRACS only schools is on a case-by-case, school-by-school basis. Students should always do their homework before enrolling in a program (and get everything in writing).

I did not survey secular schools. However many secular universities/colleges require regionally accredited degrees in order for a person to be hired as an adjunct lecturer/professor or as a fulltime instructor/professor. However personal connections, or achievements, have a way of overriding such requirements.

Can I teach with my degree? Yes, possibly - if I were so inclined and that particular job market opened up (two huge ifs). I could earn a MTh at UNISA or SATS, etc. and then enter a research doctoral program at a R.A. school. That is not too different than what someone with an M.Div. from a R.A.-only school would have to do if he wanted to teach.

Of course you can teach with a Masters from Luther Rice University. However you would have to either (a) find a school that did not require candidates to hold regionally accredited degrees (b) graduate from a regionally accredited PhD/DMin/EdD program or (c) have good connections.

College teaching, at any level, is a very difficult career to break into. The current economic situation has made a difficult path even more difficult. Many colleges have hiring freezes or are being very picky on their hiring. Many colleges are looking internally to adjuncts who have proven valuable. So it is very hard for outsiders, with no connects or experience, to get a foot in the door. Those that do, need to work day and night to keep their foot in the door. People going into college teaching should always have a plan B and a great deal of patience. My plan b was teaching at the middle/high school level. Whatever it maybe, those trying to break into this field need a backup plan (a plan b).

 

[Mississippi John]

Yes by all means, do not prepare yourself properly...

"Formal" schooling in terms of seminary is studying the Word of God, and the History of His people, under Godly men. Those who shun it, will pay a heavy price in not being fully prepared.

Formal training is NOT necessary in order to bring folk's to Christ.


And that, is what it is all about.

 

[mcdirector]

Due to being in the Navy, I am looking for a school that offers a 100% online Masters in Ministry, Bible, Christian Leadership, or something of that nature that I can add on to later in my career when I have a little more time to get the Masters in Divinity. I sat down with my Pastor about it and mentioned that I had been looking at Liberty University and Peidmont Baptist College, both of which he said were pretty liberal. As an Independent Fundament Baptist, are there any accredited schools that you can suggest for me? Maranatha is one that my Pastor mentioned, any other suggestions?

Before I read all the other posts, I've got to comment on PBC. I live in Winston Salem and have taken courses there for continuing ed credit. If they are liberal, I'd love to see conservative. It was just in the last few years I could wear capris on campus because they did not allow women on campus in slacks. They also may not be KJV-only, but I've never heard anyone from there read anything else. I've heard them refer to other versions, but not actually use them.

 

[Havensdad]

Formal training is NOT necessary in order to bring folk's to Christ.


And that, is what it is all about.

That is the silliest statement I have ever heard. That is NOT what it is all about; that is only the beginning. Haven't you ever read the Bible? Yes, we are supposed to make disciples. Then what? "teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you..."

THAT requires formal training. What is formal training? It is the older teaching the younger. And since the Bible is very clear that such teachers should be paid, there is little else to discuss.

 

[Peggy]

I guess liberalism is in the eye of the beholder.