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Which statement is more correct?
- Thread starter Davyboy
- Start date
Jesus said: "I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The word Peter signifies a stone,--a rolling stone. Peter was not the rock upon which the church was founded. The gates of hell DID prevail against him when he denied Jesus with cursing. The church was built upon Jesus, against whom the gates of hell could not prevail.
"Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation." Deut. 32:4; Ps. 62:7; Isa. 28:16.
Peter himself, applies this prophecy to Jesus. He says, "If ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious: unto whom coming, a living stone, rejected indeed of men, but with God elect, precious, ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house." 1 Peter 2:3-5
"Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 3:11. "Upon this rock," said Jesus, "I will build My church."
"Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation." Deut. 32:4; Ps. 62:7; Isa. 28:16.
Peter himself, applies this prophecy to Jesus. He says, "If ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious: unto whom coming, a living stone, rejected indeed of men, but with God elect, precious, ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house." 1 Peter 2:3-5
"Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 3:11. "Upon this rock," said Jesus, "I will build My church."
It's always best to let Bible answer Bible. Take a look at the Rock in the rest of the Bible:
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, with CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF as the chief cornerstone. (Ephesians 2:19-20)
Jesus Christ HIMSELF is the stone, or rock, of Matthew 16:18 and parallel verses. Please take a look at some of the Scriptures the disciples, and all Jews, knew:
Genesis 49:24 -- But his bow remained steady,
his strong arms stayed limber,
bacause of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob,
because of the Shepherd the Rock of Israel,
because of your father's God, who helps you...
Deuteronomy 32:3-4 -- I will proclaim the name of the LORD,
Oh, praise the greatness of our God!
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just.
Deuteronomy 32:15 -- Jeshurun grew fat and kicked;
filled with food, he became heavy and sleek.
He abandoned the God who made him
and rejected the Rock his Savior.
Deuteronomy 32:18 -- You deserted the Rock, who fathered you;
you forgot the God who gave you birth.
Deuteronomy 32:30 -- How could one man chase a thousand,
or two put ten thousand to flight,
unless their Rock had sold them,
unless the LORD had given them up?
For their rock is not like our Rock,
even as our enemies concede.
Those verses are from the Torah -- the first five books of our Old Testament, which are referred to by Christ and all Jews as The Law. It is very clear in The Law who the Rock is.
Continued on the next post -- it was too long for this one --
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, with CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF as the chief cornerstone. (Ephesians 2:19-20)
Jesus Christ HIMSELF is the stone, or rock, of Matthew 16:18 and parallel verses. Please take a look at some of the Scriptures the disciples, and all Jews, knew:
Genesis 49:24 -- But his bow remained steady,
his strong arms stayed limber,
bacause of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob,
because of the Shepherd the Rock of Israel,
because of your father's God, who helps you...
Deuteronomy 32:3-4 -- I will proclaim the name of the LORD,
Oh, praise the greatness of our God!
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just.
Deuteronomy 32:15 -- Jeshurun grew fat and kicked;
filled with food, he became heavy and sleek.
He abandoned the God who made him
and rejected the Rock his Savior.
Deuteronomy 32:18 -- You deserted the Rock, who fathered you;
you forgot the God who gave you birth.
Deuteronomy 32:30 -- How could one man chase a thousand,
or two put ten thousand to flight,
unless their Rock had sold them,
unless the LORD had given them up?
For their rock is not like our Rock,
even as our enemies concede.
Those verses are from the Torah -- the first five books of our Old Testament, which are referred to by Christ and all Jews as The Law. It is very clear in The Law who the Rock is.
Continued on the next post -- it was too long for this one --
But let's keep going:
1 Samuel 2:2 is part of Hannah's prayer --
There is no one holy like the LORD;
there is no one besides you;
there is no Rock like our God.
2 Samuel 22:32 -- For who is God besides the LORD?
And who is the Rock except our God?
2 Samuel 22:47 -- The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock!
Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!
Psalm 18 repeats these sections of 2 Samuel 22
Psalm 19:14 -- May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight,
O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
Psalm 28:1 -- To you I call, O LORD my Rock;
do not turn a deaf ear to me.
Psalm 42:9 -- I say to God my Rock,
'Why have you forgotten me?
Why must I go about mourning,
oppressed by the enemy?
Psalm 62:1-2 -- My soul finds rest in God alone;
my salvation comes from him.
He alone is my Rock and my salvation;
he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
Psalm 89:26 -- "He will call out to me, 'You are my Father,
my God, the Rock, my Savior.'"
Psalm 92:15 -- The LORD is upright;
he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him.
Psalm 95:1 -- Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD;
let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
Psalm 144:1 -- Praise be to the LORD my Rock,
Isaiah 8:13-14 --
The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy,
he is the one you are to fear,
he is the one you are to dread,
and he will be a sanctuary;
but for both houses of Israel he will be
a stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.
Isaiah 17:10 -- You have forgotten God your Savior;
you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
Isaiah 26:4 -- Trust in the LORD forever,
for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
Isaiah 44:8 -- You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, THERE IS N
THER ROCK; I KNOW NOT ONE.
Consistently, in the Law, the Poetry, and the Prophets, "Rock" is used to describe God. It should be noted in the Isaiah verses quoted that not only is God the Rock at that time, but that He will be (8:14) and that he is the Rock eternal (26:4). This eliminates any other "Rock" in which to trust or believe in Jewish or Christian theology. Every single one of the disciples was Jewish and had been bar mitzvahed. They KNEW their Scriptures. When Jesus declared to them, "And on this Rock I will build my church" they would have known IMMEDIATELY what He was referring to. He was identifying Himself as God, in agreement with Peter's statement of faith.
1 Samuel 2:2 is part of Hannah's prayer --
There is no one holy like the LORD;
there is no one besides you;
there is no Rock like our God.
2 Samuel 22:32 -- For who is God besides the LORD?
And who is the Rock except our God?
2 Samuel 22:47 -- The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock!
Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!
Psalm 18 repeats these sections of 2 Samuel 22
Psalm 19:14 -- May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight,
O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
Psalm 28:1 -- To you I call, O LORD my Rock;
do not turn a deaf ear to me.
Psalm 42:9 -- I say to God my Rock,
'Why have you forgotten me?
Why must I go about mourning,
oppressed by the enemy?
Psalm 62:1-2 -- My soul finds rest in God alone;
my salvation comes from him.
He alone is my Rock and my salvation;
he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
Psalm 89:26 -- "He will call out to me, 'You are my Father,
my God, the Rock, my Savior.'"
Psalm 92:15 -- The LORD is upright;
he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him.
Psalm 95:1 -- Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD;
let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
Psalm 144:1 -- Praise be to the LORD my Rock,
Isaiah 8:13-14 --
The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy,
he is the one you are to fear,
he is the one you are to dread,
and he will be a sanctuary;
but for both houses of Israel he will be
a stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.
Isaiah 17:10 -- You have forgotten God your Savior;
you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
Isaiah 26:4 -- Trust in the LORD forever,
for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
Isaiah 44:8 -- You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, THERE IS N
THER ROCK; I KNOW NOT ONE.Consistently, in the Law, the Poetry, and the Prophets, "Rock" is used to describe God. It should be noted in the Isaiah verses quoted that not only is God the Rock at that time, but that He will be (8:14) and that he is the Rock eternal (26:4). This eliminates any other "Rock" in which to trust or believe in Jewish or Christian theology. Every single one of the disciples was Jewish and had been bar mitzvahed. They KNEW their Scriptures. When Jesus declared to them, "And on this Rock I will build my church" they would have known IMMEDIATELY what He was referring to. He was identifying Himself as God, in agreement with Peter's statement of faith.
Another thing to consider is that the disciples asked "Who is the greatest?" If Peter had been designated as "the Rock" that the church was built upon, then they'd of all known who the greatest was.
Lk:22:24: And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
Lk:22:24: And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
Tom Butler
New Member
As I understand the Greek, it is "thou art Peter (petros--pebble). On this rock (petra--boulder, foundation stone), I will build my church."
I thought the Rock, big Rock in this verse was the confession? By building he means admitting into his saving institution which is better known as the Church and we are admitted (building) into the Church via the confession of our faith.
Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
stan the man
New Member
I will be commenting to Davyboys question in another thread. (The title of this tread will be called "The Pope")
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
I have read your comments on the other thread. Unfortunately, they are flawed.
The comments on this thread are right on!
The comments on this thread are right on!
