Soteriology is incomplete without delving into the nature of God and with that philosophy or logic. And that’s where these theological lenses differ.
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Which theological lenses best explains SARS-CoV-2?
- Thread starter Agent47
- Start date
Soteriology is incomplete without delving into the nature of God and with that philosophy or logic. And that’s where these theological lenses differ.
what’s the purpose of striking nations that have no idea He exists?
I'm still trying to take over Jay Leno's' (former) job!
funniest comment in a long time
Creationism.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" ( Romans 1:18-20 ).
This tells me that not only do all men know that God exists, but that we suppress that truth willfully.
We have the knowledge of good and evil, and we know full well the difference between the two.
So, I have no idea where you got the notion that nations composed of people do not know that He exists, and do not know that what they are doing is either good or evil from God's standpoint, but it isn't from the Scriptures.
The Bible teaches that all men are without excuse, and that all men walk into the "barn door" of disobedience of our own free will...enjoying sin "with eyes wide shut" and fully aware of what we are doing, and not caring enough to repent ( Romans 1:28-32 ).
That's why He strikes nations that continue to disobey Him...
Because we are all fully responsible for our sins and stubbornly refuse to come to God for reconciliation...even if it means our death.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Man's philosophy has no place at the table of God's word, and never did.
"Logic" is a subjectively untrustworthy thing that changes depending on who one asks, and compared to God's wisdom, and it has no right even occupying the same space when approaching the truth of the Scriptures.
We as believers either trust every word ( Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 ) by faith ( because they are God's words, and not man's words ), or we do not.
We either pick and choose what to believe out of God's word, like "a la carte" or a "smorgasboard"...
or we accept and believe the whole thing unreservedly, and eat the "vegetables" that we may not like the taste of.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
The reason these "theological lenses" differ, is because some people always see the Scriptures through the carnal mind of an unbeliever, and some people see the Scriptures through the lens of the spiritual mind of the believer ( 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 ).
In other words, some will always see salvation by works ( co-operative effort between man and God, with God never violating man's "free" will ), and some will come to see salvation wholly by the grace and mercy of God alone ( God "operating" on the heart of a man or woman, and that person then following them of their own freed will ).
There is also one other factor:
As a believer ( someone whose heart God has miraculously changed by His power ) continues their studies in God's word, it becomes clearer the more effort they put into obeying His commands to desire it and study it ( 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Timothy 2:15 ).
Things they did not understand before, get cleared up over time.
As they study His words for themselves, their "theological lens" changes.
As an unbeliever ( someone who professes Christ but in works they deny Him, and whose heart God never changed by His miraculous power and grace ) studies God's word, they never gain a greater understanding of it, no matter how much effort they personally put into it.
They will always be dependent upon men and institutions of men for that understanding, and the Bible will never "click" for them.
Their "theological lens" will never change, no matter how hard they try.
Basically put, there is a true understanding of God's word that can be arrived at, and there are any number of false ones that can and are arrived at.
At the end of it all, there is only one faith, one baptism, and one Jesus.
Not many "faiths", many "christs" and many ideas of baptism.
There will be many people to whom Jesus Christ says, "I never knew you." ( Matthew 7:21-23 ), and some that He says, " Well done thou faithful servant, enter into the joy of thy Lord." ( Matthew 25:21-23 ).
See Matthew 25:31-46 and pay careful attention to the words.
My best advice to those who have believed on Christ as their hope of eternal life and for the forgiveness of their sins?
Study His words constantly...
He has much to show you and there are no fast and easy answers;
Especially about how and why He saved you.
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you are carnal and I can tell by your reasoning
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I'd prefer that you address the rest of the post ( hopefully with God's word ), and try not to focus in on one statement.
But I acknowledge that you are free to analyze my posts and answer according to your own desires, if you like.
I'm not on this forum to offend people, but I often find that the truth offends.
Stated in another way, even though my sincere desire is not to offend, I know that offense sometimes comes with the territory.
Does anything else I've stated offend you, or is there a list of them "Agent47"?
I don't want there to be any misunderstandings about what I believe and why, so I'd be more than happy to reply to any questions or comments that you may have with what I see and understand from God's word.
After all, that is what really matters, isn't it?
What God's word actually says, not how it is "interpreted".
On a side note:
Incidentally, do you know what the tattoo in your avatar represents?
Merces Letifer - Google Search
It symbolizes a hitman...
Someone who is sent on a covert mission to take out an enemy through subterfuge and ultimately, assassination.
How about your screen name?
Agent 47 - Google Search
My question to you is:
Are you entirely comfortable that a born again Christian ( a blood-bought child of the living God, who loves Him and His people and hates this world and its ways ) should be using that to portray themselves;
On a forum that is dedicated to the praise and glory of Jesus Christ and the edification of His saints?
I wouldn't be.
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Noah Hirsch
Active Member
I do not think Arminians necessarily deny that God causes diseases and natural disasters. If they do, then at this point we are not talking about the same God. I would not say that either Calvinism or Arminianism is incapable of giving explanations for this outbreak and the spread of the virus.
Scripture teaches both of these "lenses" miss the mark. But scripture does teach why our environment is harsh?
Question, why do some people seek God as a refuge from calamity now and in the afterlife?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Hey?
You have got to read this:
International Contract Agency
" The Agency's motto, which is in Latin, "Merces Letifer" means "Lethal Trade". Atop the Agency's logo resides the "all-seeing eye", frequently attributed to the Illuminati and Freemasonry."
Knowing some Spanish ( and French ), I figured "Merces" meant something like "mercado", but I didn't know that "Letifer" meant "lethal", although "letal" is Spanish for the same.
Also, being a former video gamer from wayyy back, I know where the source material comes from for many games...
Including first-person shooters and games like Grand Theft Auto:
Violence, murder, war, illicit sex...
More violence, more war, more murder and more illicit sex.
All godly things that Christians should love to do, no?
No.
So, if you are playing them, I encourage you to get off that stuff, and fast.
It does the soul no good ( 1 Peter 2:11 ), and I speak from experience.
Almost every title out there from roughly 1988 to 2009 I've played or seen played, and then some.
Far Cry, Crysis, Doom, Eve Online, Wing Commander, Space Invaders, combat flight simulators, naval strategies, sub sims, Call of Duty, Mass Effect, Command and Conquer, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Star Wars Galaxies, X-Wing, etc.
Been there, done that.
Got the T-shirt, wore it out and shamed myself in the process.
I don't want to ever go back to that.
Apologies, I got a bit off track...
We were discussing where SARS-CoV2 came from, weren't we?
In post #3, I showed Scripture that says that God sends pestilence upon nations.
So, if not God, then where?
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
Arminianism ... God synergistically invited each and every person in the world, without exception, to decide for themselves based on their own free will choice whether to accept the SARS-CoV-2 virus, or to reject it.
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Neither one.
The virus is a non-virus...
Even if it were something meaningful like Ursinia Pestis...…(a real disease)...
It wouldn't be a Cal-Arm issue.
Perhaps, Cals or Arms might have different focuses for what a genuine plague (which this isn't) might mean for the believer at the time.
But, they wouldn't inherently disagree, or be Theologically forced to.
Providential ordering of the Universe is understood as reality by both camps, they only tend to divulge when it MUST inform a Soteriological view.
This doesn't.
Knowledge of God's existence is irrelevant. Has each person, by nature, rebelled against God? The answer is...yes.
What is the penalty for treason?
Does not the King have every right to punish treason...regardless of whether the treasonous person believes in the King or not?
Your question belies your theological view of God.
To answer the OP there is only one theological view that's shared by both, although each look at it a little differently... THE FALL!... Brother Glen
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.