Which way would produce more positive results?

Yes, I think his choice was real. I don't think Jesus would have sweated blood if the Father had made the choice for him. Further, why would his obedience be a reason for the Father to honour him if the Father forced his obedience?

And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:8-11, ESV)

 

Hi Whatever;
If God is in some kind of competition for who wins the most souls?.
God is not in competition with anyone. The fact is most are not saved. Would that mean Satan wins? I hope not.
Calvinist believe it is God who does the choosing. That He finds us and not the other way around.
Christ said;
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Stating that it is man who finds his way is strong evidence that man does play a part in his own Salvation.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

God is impartial (Romans 2:11)

SO ---

So although mankind - left to HIMSELF would not be saved -- the IMPARTIAL GOD "SO LOVED the WORLD that He GAVE".

And now ALL the World has a savior for our impartial God "GAVE HIS SON to be the savior of the WORLD" 1John 4:14.

And our impartial God "STANDS" at the door of each heart and knocks so that if ANYONE should hear AND choose to OPEN that door He will THEN come in and have fellowship with them! Rev 3.

And that is "how" anyone is saved!

In Christ,

Bob

 

I agree that the Son chose what the Father wanted. Just because he did so does not mean his temptation was a sham. I believe Jesus was tempted in all ways as we are, yet was without sin (Hebrews 4:15). I don't see how anyone can read Jesus' words in the garden and think that he had no turmoil about what do to. As I've said from my first post on this, "Jesus chose to submit to the Father's will."

As you may recall, your initial claim was that "The Father refused to allow the Son to make his own choice, instead insisting that the Son obey the Father's will by redeeming us on the cross."

What you are now saying is quite different from that, and is instead something I mainly agree with.

 

Ah, so you're advocating a Henry Ford choice. "You can paint it any colour, so long as it's black."

I don't think Jesus' choice was that illusory. If his decision was fixed by anything, it was by Jesus' nature, not the Father's coercion.

 

You wrote He loves us so much that he will let us choose eternal damnation? That doesn't sound like love. I love my children too much to let them choose what will destroy them. If my child is in danger I do what I can to remove them from danger. I do not ask their permission first.

And yet - Unless you are proposing universalism - you say:
He loves many so little that he forces them into damnation. He loves his children so little than he does not allow them to choose salvation.

As to the comments that men are "dead" - I disagree. Being born into sin, doesn't mean we are born spiritually dead.

Christians sin.
Christians are not dead.

Ergo - sin, in itself, is not spiritual death.

Rejection of God is spiritual death.

 

Why do you think God does not save everyone, then? </font>[/QUOTE]And therein lies the anti-calvinist paradox. God supposedly loves everyone enough to let them choose- but yet no one would choose life, so you're back to the original question: Why is anyone saved? </font>[/QUOTE]...because of the drawing of the Holy Spirit and our faith in Jesus Christ. Simple.

 

Mercury, you are exactly right. It was fixed by Jesus' nature. And by nature, He could not sin.