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Whistleblowers, Sources & Discernment

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Jon, as my final reply in this thread I'll have to disagree with this.

In my opinion we don't "have it" now.
What we have are a set of "vaccines" developed using a technology that has not been historically tested or used on humans on a large scale until the past year or so.
Again, I put the term in quotations and use the term loosely because to me, true vaccines use "Whole Virus" or "Protein Subunit" as their technologies, and not what amounts to gene manipulation through mRNA and DNA technologies ( viral vector and nucleic acid ).

Regardless, many call them vaccines and would disagree with me, and I have to accept what is.

Still, we, as a race and in my own opinion, know little to nothing of even the mid-term effects of using these types of biotechnologies,
and just because it "looks good" in the short term, does not mean it's the best thing since sliced bread and butter.

My belief is that scientists simply do not know what it is that they are playing with when it comes to gene therapy and other related biotechnologies, and it seems to me that they are bound and determined to discover their mistakes the hard way.

I suspect, based on the overwhelming majority of comments that I'm seeing in the news, in media and in forums like this one,
that you may very well be right, Jon;

She and anyone else who stands in the way of this "sure thing" will be ultimately rolled over in the process, and things will keep right on going...
with people like her simply being a "bump in the road".
Truth or no truth, desperate people make for desperate measures, and if no one wants to hear it, no one will.;)

If it's one thing I've become very well-acquainted with in this world,
it's having to get used to the fact that most people seem to want to find out everything the hard way ( myself included )...
Especially after what was often looked at as a "miracle cure" turns out not to be one, and has deadly ( or even unsavory ) side-effects and long-term repercussions.

All they seem to care about is a "quick fix", so that they can get on with whatever priorities are more important.


Good afternoon to you.
I was only addressing the idea of considering a woman who was a sales representative at Pfizer from June 1996 to December 1998 as some type of expert regarding the ingredients in the 2019 mRNA vaccine.

I just believe her a poor choice. I also question how she is presented (whistleblower, former Pfizer employee) with noting role (sales rep) and dates (June 1996 to Dec 1998). I think she is being used to provide an appearance of the validity that is missing.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
@Dave G ,

The main thing I am asking if we have to have a standard for our sources and if so is it fair to ask another to explain why they consider a source an expert.

For example, I could source David Wentworth. That is well and good, but isn't it also important that I include the reason his conclusions should be considered (his qualifications)?
 

Wingman68

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
@Dave G ,

The main thing I am asking if we have to have a standard for our sources and if so is it fair to ask another to explain why they consider a source an expert.

For example, I could source David Wentworth. That is well and good, but isn't it also important that I include the reason his conclusions should be considered (his qualifications)?
sources & discernment…spare me. You weigh in on every single topic & act like you are the only reasonable, believable source here, without sources, the majority of the time. Or your sources will be the exact source that we are disputing, which makes you crazy. Get a grip. Let people discuss. Our sources are the sources that aren’t controlled. Tough to come by, but we make it work. We don’t need you to tell us how or what to think. You remind me of Mika Brzezinski who worried that Trump was trying to undermine the media & control what people think, ‘and that, that’s our job.’
No……no it’s not.
 
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JonC

Moderator
Moderator
sources & discernment…spare me. You weigh in on every single topic & act like you are the only reasonable, believable source here, without sources, the majority of the time. Or your sources will be the exact source that we are disputing, which makes you crazy. Get a grip. Let people discuss. Our sources are the sources that aren’t controlled. Tough to come by, but we make it work. We don’t need you to tell us how or what to think. You remind me of Mika Brzezinski who worried that Trump was trying to undermine the media & control what people think, ‘and that, that our job.’ No……no it’s not.
Asking why a source offered as an expert on an issue is relevant.

You remind me of Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, stirring up dust to avoid addressing issues and answering questions.

Why do you reject experts like Dr. Wentworth (who is an expert in the field) and trust "experts" like Kingston who was a Pfizer sales representative from 1996 to 1998?
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
This should be in the thread where it belongs, https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/tiny-heavy-metal-baby.122232/

Aren'tchu breakin' forum rules here?

Ayuk.

I 'spect some haughty retort a comin'.

Gonna get cher fren to do what yiu wanna do?

Yer a MODERATOR that kayshonalee fergets.
No. If I posted it there then it would be an off topic post. Examining the sources on both threads is allowed (it is necessary on the other thread).

This thread is not about Karen Kingston. It is about the choices people make in determining who to believe.

Why do you trust Karen Kingston's information about the Pfiser mRNA vaccine when she was employed by Pfizer as a sales representative from 1996 to 1998 and her education is marketing?

I am asking what you believe qualifies a person to be an expert on coronaviruses and vaccines. Is it being a sales rep with a degree in marketing?

Or is it just somebody who says what you want to hear?

I ask because the experts I use do not say what I want to hear but thus far all of yours seem to say exactly what you want.

And what is with the "Ayuk"? Are you implying something racist? I don't get it.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
"And what is with the "Ayuk"? Are you implying something racist? I don't get it."

That's a real good implied dig there JonC.

Then you admit you don't get it.

Are you trying to be honest?

Ayuk.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
"And what is with the "Ayuk"? Are you implying something racist? I don't get it."

That's a real good implied dig there JonC.

Then you admit you don't get it.

Are you trying to be honest?

Ayuk.
Yes. I don't get it. The only connection I can think of is Eric (I have a cousin who was in Turkey).

I do not understand why you assume there is a dig implied. I have been very straight forward.

I do not understand what appears to be childish language or some type of dig.

What do you mean by "Ayuk" and all of the weird misspellings?
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
@Wingman68 and @SGO

This is what I mean. The following are some of the sources I have relied on when posting (along with their qualifications). You two view them as unqualified yet have not provided the reasons you trust those you have decided are good sources.

David Wentworth, PhD, has a Doctor of Philosophy degree in virology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where he specialized in the study of influenza viruses. He studied coronaviruses as a postdoctoral fellow, and later as an instructor in the Department of Microbiology at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver. Dr. Wentworth has conducted virological research since 1990 and has published 200 papers.

Dr. Wentworth was director of Viral Programs at the J. Craig Venter Institute from 2011 to 2014, where his studies focused on interspecies transmission, pathogenesis, viral evolution and vaccine development using synthetic genomic strategies. From 2002 to 2011, Dr. Wentworth was the director of the Influenza Virus and Coronavirus Pathogenesis laboratory at the Wadsworth Center, NYSDOH. He also was an assistant professor at the State University of New York-Albany, where his laboratory studied interspecies transmission of influenza viruses and coronaviruses (e.g., SARS-CoV), genomic technologies, and experimental vaccine approaches.

John Barnes, PhD, earned his Doctor of Philosophy degree in biochemistry and molecular biology from University of Georgia in Athens, Georgia (GO DAWGS!). He was a postdoctoral fellow at the Emory University Department of Human Genomics.

Terrence M. Tumpey, PhD, earned his Bachelor of Arts degree in biology from the University of Minnesota and his Doctor of Philosophy in microbiology/immunology from the University of South Alabama School of Medicine in Mobile, Alabama. He was a recipient of the American Society for Microbiology (ASM) Postdoctoral Fellowship award and conducted his postdoctoral training in CDC’s Influenza Branch. He later served the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) as a Microbiologist at the Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory in Athens, Georgia. His research on pathogenesis and immunity during the last 30 years is documented in over 250 total peer-reviewed publications. In 2006, he was honored with the Lancet Award for the top scientific paper of 2005. He also received the 2006 and 2008 Charles C. Shepard awards for outstanding research papers. In 2007, Dr. Tumpey was inducted into the University of Minnesota, Duluth Academy of Science and Engineering, and he received the distinguished alumni award presented by the University of South Alabama.

Vivien G. Dugan, PhD, earned a Bachelor of Science degree in biology from Union College, a Master of Science in veterinary parasitology, and a Doctor of Philosophy in infectious diseases from the College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Georgia, where she specialized in zoonotic, tick-borne pathogens. She studied avian influenza genomics as an NIH-funded postdoctoral fellow at The Institute for Genomic Research and the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. Dr. Dugan completed her training on influenza virology and the evolution of pandemic and avian influenza viruses, including the 1918 and 2009 H1N1 pandemic viruses, at the Laboratory of Infectious Diseases, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), NIH. Dr. Dugan was a program officer in the Office of Genomics and Advanced Technologies, Division of Microbiology and Infectious Diseases, NIAID, NIH. She provided leadership and scientific guidance for extramural research for controlling and preventing infectious diseases. This included functional genomics and systems biology approaches to study antimicrobial resistance, MERS and SARS coronaviruses, influenza viruses, and Ebola and Zika viruses. Dr. Dugan was an assistant professor of viral genomics at the J. Craig Venter Institute from 2010 to 2012, where she focused on influenza and vector-borne viral genomics, viral evolution and synthetic influenza vaccine development.

Robert S. Langer completed his undergraduate stidies in Chemical Engineering at Cornell University and obtained his Sc.D in Chemical Engineering at MIT. He joined MIT as Assistant Professor of Nutritional Biochemistry in 1978. Dr. Langer has received over 220 major awards. He is one of 5 living individuals to have received both the United States National Medal of Science (2006) and the United States National Medal of Technology and Innovation (2011). He also received the 2002 Charles Stark Draper Prize, considered the equivalent of the Nobel Prize for engineers, the 2008 Millennium Prize, the world’s largest technology prize, the 2012 Priestley Medal, the highest award of the American Chemical Society, the 2013 Wolf Prize in Chemistry, the 2014 Breakthrough Prize in Life Sciences and the 2014 Kyoto Prize. He is the also the only engineer to receive the Gairdner Foundation International Award.

Kathrin U. Jansen, Ph.D., served as Senior Vice President at Wyeth Pharmaceuticals and on Wyeth’s R&D Executive Committee since 2006 and was responsible for vaccine discovery, early development and clinical testing operations. Dr. Jansen spent 12 years at Merck Research Laboratories where she directed or supported a number of vaccine efforts, including Merck’s novel bacterial vaccine programs and viral vaccine programs (rotavirus, zoster and mumps, measles and rubella).

She received her doctoral degree in microbiology, biochemistry & genetics from Phillips Universitaet, Marburg, Germany, in 1984. Following completion of her formal training, she continued her postdoctoral training at Cornell University working on the structure and function of the acetylcholine receptor. She then joined the Glaxo Institute for Molecular Biology in Geneva, Switzerland, where she focused on basic studies of a receptor believed to be a drug target to treat allergies.

Dr. Jansen was appointed an Adjunct Professor at the University of Pennsylvania – School of Medicine in 2010 and has authored and co-authored over 190 publications. She is a member of the CEPI (Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations) scientific advisory committee, American Society for Microbiology and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Medicine.

Larisa Gubareva, MD, PhD, earned her Doctor of Medicine degree from the State Medical University and Doctor of Philosophy degree from the Ivanovsky Institute of Virology, Moscow, Russia. Sge completed her postdoctoral training at the Department of Virology and Molecular Biology at St. Jude’s Children’s Research Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee. Dr. Gubareva joined the faculty of the Division of Infectious Diseases and International Health, Department of Internal Medicine, University of Virginia School of Medicine, Charlottesville, Virginia. Dr. Gubareva is a renowned expert in the field of influenza virology and antivirals. She has authored and co-authored over 160 peer-reviewed research articles, reviews and book chapters. She received Charles C. Shepard Award in 2010 and was nominated by the NCIRD for Charles C. Shepard awards in 2015 and 2016. She serves on editorial boards of four scientific journals (Journal of Infectious Diseases, Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy, Antiviral Research, and Influenza and Other Respiratory Virus Diseases).
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
You recall writing that it is good to give five-year-olds the jab?

Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
James 3:11

So much for the source.

Too much overkill.

You wanna trade Phds?

You have discounted plenty.

Your pile is quite high, no sense trying to top it.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
You recall writing that it is good to give five-year-olds the jab?

Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
James 3:11

So much for the source.

Too much overkill.

You wanna trade Phds?

You have discounted plenty.

Your pile is quite high, no sense trying to top it.
You do not need to "top it". And no need to take Scripture out of context (no need to "quote" God like you "quote" me). I rely of God and am thankful He has given these doctors the skill to have already saved so many lives.

But those are some of the people you dismiss, which is fine.

I am asking you how you choose your sources.

Is it based on qualifications or just saying what you want to hear (those who "tickle your ears")?
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
@SGO

I can help you start with one of your expert sources on viruses and mRNA vaccines:

Karen Kingston, Lubin School of Business. Ms. Kingston was employed by Pfizer from June 1996 to December 1998 as a sales representative. She played an integral role in the re-launch of VIAGRA shifting the focus to younger men and empowering patients to speak to their doctors about Viagra. She has led sales training, marketing and communication workshops and has appeared on FOX, MSNBC, and CBS as the spokeswoman and Director of US Marketing for InnoVision Labs. In 2007, Karen founded Varitage. She specializes in improving lead generation, nurturing, and conversion for B2B and B2C customers.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Why thank ee JonC but yah don' seem ta git mah drift.

I dough nut trust yur sour ces.

Ayuk.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Why thank ee JonC but yah don' seem ta git mah drift.

I dough nut trust yur sour ces.

Ayuk.
I know you do not trust those I have listed. That is no problem. A Christian is called to be wise, to discern and reason. Even so, believers will disagree.

I just gave you some of the people I consider experts as well as their qualifications. Each of those doctors have contributed to saving people through the skills God has given them. That is why I consider then reliable sources.

I am asking you who you consider reliable (other than Karen Kingston). What are their qualifications?

And what is with the gibberish?

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 1 Cor 14:11

Perhaps it is time to put away childish things.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Welp, good 'ol JonC back to yur nomal self.

Only JonC has the absolootlee correct infomashun.

You get tah make funna me all you like with nobody on yur side o' the fence to tell ya differnt.

Whenja get all that power?

Sumbuddy vote fer ya?

O, tha's raht, you ar de judge.

I just 're a yuk ayuk ayuk.
 

Use of Time

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Welp, good 'ol JonC back to yur nomal self.

Only JonC has the absolootlee correct infomashun.

You get tah make funna me all you like with nobody on yur side o' the fence to tell ya differnt.

Whenja get all that power?

Sumbuddy vote fer ya?

O, tha's raht, you ar de judge.

I just 're a yuk ayuk ayuk.

At this point you are just trolling. Here’s what’s happening. People are used to posting their unverified partisan articles on here without question because it is essentially an echo chamber. You are ill equipped to back these up (because most are easy to poke holes in) and you don’t know how to participate in a discussion where everyone isn’t agreeing with you. You are also falling onto this weird paranoid fantasy in which you are being treated with a heavy hand by moderators. Another deflection. Sound about right?

You don’t have to answer but please stop trolling if you aren’t prepared to have a discussion like a grown up. This is a discussion board not Facebook.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
The Jon army has arrived.

Speech for thee but not for me.

Nothin better to do with your time?
 

Use of Time

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Jon army has arrived.

Speech for thee but not for me.

Nothin better to do with your time?

You tell me. Look deep inside and tell me I’m wrong. Jon frustrates people because he stays calm and discusses things calmly but he is really pretty easy to get along with. Really dig deep inside and see if he’s the real problem here. Are you truly trying to post and learn the truth or are you mad because people just don’t take these sources at face value. I’m not trying to pile on but if you are honest with yourself you already know the answer.

A discussion doesn’t have to be a battle of the wills. A disagreement doesn’t have to be something to get immature about. If the discourse is something you aren’t emotionally capable of handling then maybe you shouldn’t engage.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Why since you're using your time here to poke I will take a little more of your time to tell you partially why this here is happening.

A while back I posted an opinion about what I thought certain people's tactics were about getting people to support their vax policies, by turning them against

those who chose not to take the vax.

This is the thread:

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/the-unvaxed-are-lice-has-a-precedent.121834/#post-2730050

Jon didn't like it and did not accept my explanation of why I posted it.

Since then we sort of have been at each other.

I suppose you still may be on his side but since that lice post there have been many edits of my other posts and not only by Jon.

I consider my theological beliefs to be conservative, that is, not heretical.

But I think we on this forum have a right to express our opinions about current events without being bullied, made fun of, or called liars, even if nicely.

I cannot even pm Jon, and have been told take up any beefs with the admin, but I will not since I witnessed them making fun of me when they did not think I was there.

I know what I am doing, more or less, but they (and you) don't really understand it so they attack.

Not trolling but being indirectly blunt.

I do not agree with Jon, his sources, or his tactics.
 
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