White House Ramadan Blessings

Since the biggest religions in the US are Christian (in practice, not salvific state), Jewish, and Muslim, I think the WH is being consistent with that. But I wouldn't have a problem with WH Buddhist or Hindu greetings one certain holidays. THey'd be false religions nonetheless, imo, but I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Te term referrs to the unreasonable fear of such.

Slow down there, it's late and my fingers are tired. I myself will stand up against any religious agenda that tries to take over the country. But I don't paint with a broad brush, because doing so has given us things like hte Patriot Act and the like. Anyone of any religion, or no religion, is welcome here so long as they adhere to the Constitution. If I don't like what they're doing, but it is Constitutionally protected, then I have no right to usurp their right just to fit my opinions. Likewise for them.

No disagreement. But just because the term is hijacked doesn't mean it's less valid. Unfortunately, real homophobia (not the left-wing label) is alive and well. Just ask any two male friends to walk in public arm in arm. I give it 5 minutes before someone in apassing car yells "fag" or "queer". But that's a different topic altogether, which I suspect from past posts we agree on more than we think.

Not really. The conservative label has unfortunately been likewise hijacked by hyperconservatives.

No, some conservatives sit and whine about religions persecution, godless society, and the whole nine yards.

True, but a true conservative doesn't slap a "PC" label on others when it suits them. Hyperconservatives do frequently.

I do agree there. I think that the phrase used should be "Muslims believe..." or "Christians believe..." or "Judaism believes...". That would demonstrate a respect for a person's belief without any implication of belief. But since the WH didn't consult me, I won't hold it againt them.

I must not be trying hard enough

Seemy prevous post. You make a good point, though I don't think there was any such intention. Again, someday whern I'm a white house staffer...

That's actually encouraging. The number of folks on this bb who have privately pm'd me berating my "association with Muslims" is more than you need to know.

 

This has nothing to do with phobias. I gave my own personal reaction and it was the reaction I had when I first read Bush's remarks on this in 2003.

And it is not just greetings. It is about making statements that imply the Koran is God's revelation and that the God of Islam and the Christian God are one and the same. The God of Islam is a false god. If you read about him in the Koran, he has attributes and traits that are unlike the Christian God and he does not possess traits and qualities that the biblical God does.

To me, there is no difference in making the God of Islam sound like the God of the Bible than there is in making the Wiccan goddess or god or a Hindu god sound like the biblical God.

 

Okay, I'll give you that. My point is that Islamiphobes don't care about how many other nonchristian religions got greetings. They only care about the ones about Islam.

Hey, I've been Islamophobic from time to time, and it's sin that I have had to repent from.

 

I do not like it. Islam is not a worship of God the Father.

 

Hey! We liberals reject Islamiphobia! It is not on our progressive agenda.

 

GW may be lots of things but a christian is not one of them. Anyone who places any trust in the man as far as spiritual matters go is sadly decieved:

President George W. Bush is once again indicating a belief that all religions are recognized by God. Many born-again Christians have been troubled by Bush's statements and actions that suggest an endorsement of the idea that all religions are equal before God. These believers point to Bush's Ramadan dinners at the White House and his praise of Islam as examples. Associated Press reports that yesterday, in a speech at a New Orleans church, Bush told the crowd that God works through many of the world's religions. "Miracles happen as a result of the love of the Almighty, professed, by the way, taught, by the way, by religions from all walks of life whether it be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu," Bush said. The president went on to say that there is nothing better than a faith-based program to provide hope: "Again, I don't care what religion it is -- there's nothing more hopeful than the word." It was not clear from the report what "word" President Bush was talking about. [Fred Jackson/AP]

 

Regardless of the rest of the topic, this is nothing short of judging a man's salvation. That is something that is not the right of man to do, but God's alone. It is a fact that GW Bush accepted Christ as his personal Lord and Savior. It is a fact that he gave his personal testimony to that effect. So his salvation is without question.

Now, you and I may not like some of the things he does, and/or the manner in which he does them, but to question his salvation is simply not something we're scripturally permitted to do.

 

If the man believes that all religions are the same and a man can be saved by anything other than the blood of Christ he is not saved.

 

It has been pointed out before but apparently it needs repeating.
The POTUS is also the president of the moslim citizens of the USA and that means part of his job is making nice hollow gestures like the Ramadan greeting to them. Moslim citizens of the US are just as entitled to these little gestures as Christian citizens are to their presidential Easter blessings.

 

First, there's no indication that he believes that.

Second, you cannot deny that his salvation testimony is public and well-known.

Third, I can find no where in scripture that being mistaken about a scriptural disqualifies the gift of salvation. We've all been mistaken in scriptural teaching from time to time.

Fourth, we're forbidden from judging a person's salvation. That privilege is God's and God's alone.

 

First, there's no indication that he believes that.

Second, you cannot deny that his salvation testimony is public and well-known.

Third, I can find no where in scripture that being mistaken about a scriptural disqualifies the gift of salvation. We've all been mistaken in scriptural teaching from time to time.

Fourth, we're forbidden from judging a person's salvation. That privilege is God's and God's alone. </font>[/QUOTE]Try reading it again very slowly:

President George W. Bush is once again indicating a belief that all religions are recognized by God. Many born-again Christians have been troubled by Bush's statements and actions that suggest an endorsement of the idea that all religions are equal before God. These believers point to Bush's Ramadan dinners at the White House and his praise of Islam as examples. Associated Press reports that yesterday, in a speech at a New Orleans church, Bush told the crowd that God works through many of the world's religions. "Miracles happen as a result of the love of the Almighty, professed, by the way, taught, by the way, by religions from all walks of life whether it be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu," Bush said. The president went on to say that there is nothing better than a faith-based program to provide hope: "Again, I don't care what religion it is -- there's nothing more hopeful than the word." It was not clear from the report what "word" President Bush was talking about. [Fred Jackson/AP]

 

Bush 'Worship' at Shinto Temple Troubles Christians in Japan and U.S.
By Mark Ellis
Senior Correspondent, ASSIST News Service

ORANGE, CALIFORNIA (ANS) -- When President Bush entered the ornately beautiful Shinto Temple erected to house the spirits of the late Emperor Meiji he clapped once and bowed deeply, following the common etiquette of worship at such shrines. At the same time, the Prime Minister of Japan was left sitting in the car—forbidden from entering the shrine by a postwar constitution written by the U.S.

“The Prime Minister of Japan is forbidden by their constitution from even participating in the Shinto religion because it’s emperor worship that led to World War II,” says Dr. Robert Morey, author of over 40 books dealing with false religions, cults and philosophies, and founder of the California Institute of Apologetics.

“So the Prime Minister stayed in the limo while Bush and his wife went into the temple and clapped to awaken the demon and then bowed in worship and signed the book of worship,” says Dr. Morey, referring to the Bush temple visit made February 18 as part of his Asia tour.

Emperor Meiji ruled Japan from 1850-1914, during its transformation from feudalism to modernity. He set Japan on a course toward World War II by promoting a revitalized Shintoism that favored emperor worship and the removal of foreign influences from Japan.

“It was an act of idolatry,” says Kiyomasa Akashi, with Logos Ministries in Tokyo. “Even worse, it was an official, public idol worship,” Akashi says. “He did bow before the shrine where the Meiji Emperor is enshrined as a god.”

Sadly, many Japanese and Korean Christians were severely persecuted because they refused to participate in Shinto rituals, which involved bowing down and worshipping the emperor and other false gods. “Japanese Christians are furious,” Dr. Morey says. “They were killed because they wouldn’t bow before the image of the emperor,” he says.

“Korean Christians had their hands chopped off because they wouldn’t bow and worship the emperor,” he adds. Korea was ruled as a colony of Japan between 1910-1945. “Their descendants see the Bushes making a mockery of those who, like Daniel and his three friends, refused to bow before a heathen idol.”

For the most part, American Christians who admire President Bush hope and believe he acted innocently, out of respect for local customs and traditions. But Japanese Christian leaders do not take it lightly. “According to the Shinto ritual, clapping hands and bows are the set of Shinto style of worship,” says Rev. Isaac Ishiguro, of the historic Mino Mission in Japan. “In Japan all the media reported, ‘Bush Sanpaied at Meiji shrine.’” he says. “The verb ‘Sanpai’ in Japanese means, san—visit or go, and pai—worship.”

The Japanese news media clearly reported Bush’s ‘worship,’ in direct contrast to Prime Minister Koizumi’s restraint. Before Bush left he signed a special book—which appears to be more than just a registry. “If you sign the book, it means you actually did worship the god, not simply visit the site,” says Akashi. “The record remains in the shrine for a long period of time.”

Some see Shintoism as a quaint cultural tradition, but others disagree. “Shinto has existed for a long time of history,” says Akashi, “but it’s not a culture nor tradition of the Japanese people—it’s a religion and a cult.”

“Because of an ultra-long recession of the Japanese economy, the government is swiftly reviving the old Shinto nationalism in order to gain national pride,” Akashi adds. “Kids in public elementary and high schools as well as teachers are now being forced to sing Kimigayo (“Praise Song of the Emperor”) and salute the Hinomaru flag (to the sun goddess Amateratsu) at graduation ceremonies.”

“Christian leaders and missionaries in Japan sent letters of warning and petition to the White House and the U. S. Embassy,” says Akashi, which apparently were unheeded. The White House declined to comment on this story. A State Department official said President Bush merely went to pay his respects and that he "was not involved in any religious activities, ceremonies or rites." The official noted that Presidents Carter and Reagan visited the same shrine.

In the aftermath of September 11, amid Bush’s efforts to show respect for other faiths—particularly Islam, some see a drift toward universalism, which denies the exclusiveness of Christianity. Another example was Bush’s mosque visit immediately after the attacks on the World Trade Center.

“He used the code word when he went to worship in the mosque,” Dr. Morey says. “He said, ‘I worship with you the universal God.’”

Many believers would find it difficult to believe President Bush is drifting into universalism, which blurs the distinction between the God of the Bible and the Allah of Islam. In universalism, “All the gods of all the religions are masks on Popsicle sticks that he puts in front of his face,” Dr. Morey says. “So it doesn’t matter if you’re worshipping Shiva with the Hindus or Jehovah with the Jews or Jesus or Allah.”

“Since the 1970s, the locus of universalism has been the plurality of religions,” according to Donald Dunavant, Ph.D., with the Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary. “All exclusive language, in which truth claims are asserted about the uniqueness of Christ…is regarded as arrogant and divisive in relationship to other faiths,” he adds. “Universalism promotes dialogue with other faiths that both acknowledges their legitimacy and affirms that love embraces all peoples of all times.”

Such thinking seems to dominate popular culture. “The politically correct people are in charge of the public school systems, the universities, and the media,” Dr. Morey says. “They have brainwashed President Bush to believe all religions worship the same universal God.”

“That’s why he has no difficulty worshipping in a mosque with the Muslims or in a Shinto temple in Japan,” Dr Morey adds. Many believers will hope Dr. Morey’s concerns and the fears of Japanese Christians are unfounded, as President Bush continues to live out his Christian faith in a pluralistic society.

 

GEORGE W BUSH IS BORN AGAIN WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

 

GEORGE W BUSH IS BORN AGAIN WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. </font>[/QUOTE]He's a nice man. Very ecumenical.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

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Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

That's actually not true. Shinto ritual calls for the clap followed by multiple bows as a setting for the worship. But Bush bowed only once. One bow is a sign of respect and not worship, common for a non-shinto visitor to do.

The "book signing" is likewise overblown. A worshipper will sign it to signify he worshipped there. A nonworshipper will sign to signify that respects were paid on a visit. Typically for a political figure, due to time constraints, another family member will sign for the politician.

I'm sure he is. He's still born-again.

 

I hope he is but all we have to go by are his doctrine and his fruit and they both are rotten.