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White lies
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
freeatlast
New Member
It is still a lie. Set the proper example for you child and answer the phone yourself, but don't ever push off on your child your responsibilities. This is why we do not have but very few real godly men today in the churches. Men need to be responsible! And by all means whatever the conversation be honest with your boss also.
freeatlast
New Member
No guilt for lying, that says a lot! Jim let me ask you a question. Have you ever met a liar who did not justify their lie?
Last edited by a moderator:
freeatlast
New Member
First off I did not say it was a lie, you did so I was referring to that or any circumstance. Why justify a lie?
freeatlast
New Member
No but I don't justify my sin.
Totally understandable. After working with mental patients, many of whom had Alzheimer's, it's often best for their own health to go with what they believe is the truth. If you repeatedly explain that they are in a mental ward and they have a mental illness, it's the same for them as hearing it for the first time and they suffer quite a bit for the trauma of it.
I specifically remember one lady who would become violent at times. She would insist on the keys for her car and I'd tell her the repairs were still being made. She thought she was in a repair shop. I'd ask her if I could get her a drink and would bring her a coffee and give her a seat in the waiting room. She would stay calm and quiet for quite a while!
There was another lady who used to sell ice cream to businesses. Sometimes she'd stop and give me her sales pitch and I'd just go along, putting in my order for the newest flavors she was offering.
One psychotic woman appeared to believe she was an infant. I'd get down on the floor and crawl on all fours with her and she'd giggle like crazy, she thought it was the best thing in the world to have a playmate and it would elevate her mood for hours after, where normally she'd be weepy, confused, and sometimes violent.
At another time a psychotic patient somehow managed to get a knife. We had to get it from him as he was very capable of violence. Nothing worked. After a while I casually walked up with an apple and said "hey, can I borrow that knife to cut this?" He obliged and I handed it off behind my back to another staff member.
I could go on and on with stories like that.
Lying? I don't think that even comes into play in situations such as that. I joined their world. They were better off for it.
If those were considered lies, then I have to change my answer to yes, I believe lying is just fine and dandy and even preferable in certain situations.
Flattery is a sin? Well, that's a new one for me. I guess I need to quit telling my kids I am proud of them.
DiamondLady
New Member
It is possible, in this scenario, for the child to answer and not lie. The child does not need to give an excuse, nor should the parent ask them to give an excuse. A simple, "I'm sorry, may I take a message so that my father may return your call" is all that is necessary. Why WE think it is necessary to make excuses for other people is beyond me.
I think there's a lot of folks that need to read the book Respectable Sins by Jerry Bridges (self-edited the rest of what I was going to say here). There's a difference between telling a lie and rudely and crassly telling the truth. There's a difference between being encouraging in critique and discouraging in the same critique. For instance, my art teacher (in 6th grade) gave me a C. He told my mother, at parent-teacher conference, that my artwork was F work but he gave me a C because I believed honestly what I had done was great and that in art beauty was in the eye of the beholder. In HIS artistic opinion my artwork was lousy (now I realize he was right....I can't draw a straight line with a ruler) but he wanted to be encouraging. So did he lie? I don't think so...I DID think my work was great and turned each piece in with excitement and a smile.
Sometimes a little bit of tact in the words we use can go a long way....including on this board.
freeatlast
New Member
I think a lot of people today who claim to be Christians think they have figured out ways to circumvent godliness, but at their own great expense.
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You're going to be pretty lonely up there in heaven all by yourself FAL.
freeatlast
New Member
You just don't get it, do you FAL? I am actually in complete agreement with you about telling white lies, or any sin for that matter. The scriptures say for those who name the Lord to depart from iniquity.
But there are right ways and wrong ways to do things. Implying that everyone who does not agree with you is unsaved is the wrong way. That is not for you, or I, or anyone but God to judge.
Who did Jesus rebuke the most severely in scriptures? Was it the harlots and publicans? No, it was the self-righteous scribes and Pharisees he rebuked.
Jesus was kind and merciful toward sinners, and they were drawn to him. He was harsh to those who were self-righteous and believed themselves better than others.
You may not like to hear this, but you come across as extremely self-righteous, and that is a sin my friend.
Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Who does that sound like?
Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
Who came to Jesus to listen to him? Who murmured against Jesus?
Just a little friendly advice, take it or leave it.
freeatlast
New Member
As usual you add to, and twist what is said to promote your agenda
I'm with you brother. My grandmother had Alzheimer's. She would ask the most outlandish questions when it was my turn to sit with her. Agreeing with her always seemed to settle her mind. If she asked me if I had finished baking the cake, I would say yes when there was actually no cake in question.
She would say things like, "Elton's (my long deceased grandfather) been gone to the grocery store a long time. When is he coming back?"
To remind her that he was dead and HAD been dead for 20 years would send her into a frenzy of emotion that was painful to watch. I would always reply, "He'll be back shortly, Memaw" and then I would direct her attention to something else.
The only time that I would tell her the truth about him being dead is when she would get upset and cry and say something like, "Why did Elton leave me? Why did he leave me and the babies? What did I do wrong?"
Then I would hold her hand and remind her that he was in heaven with Jesus and that he loved her very much and had never left her side for one moment in their married life. She would get upset and cry and I would get upset myself having to watch someone be told that their spouse is dead, but 5 minutes later, she would never remember the conversation.
With those types of circumstances, you say what you have to say.
Mary's father had a vicious temper if anyone disagreed. What's the point in causing this?
He wanted to go upstreet to vist his mum. I said ok. Out the door he went, and came back in somewhat frustrated.
"Wot's 't matter, " I said.
"Someone's knicked me bike."
"Where'd you leave it?"
"Out doors:, he said.
"You know better than to leave your bike outdoors in West Ham."
"right", he said,,,,and immediately settled back into his own state of mind, and I went home.
Cheers,
Jim
He wanted to go upstreet to vist his mum. I said ok. Out the door he went, and came back in somewhat frustrated.
"Wot's 't matter, " I said.
"Someone's knicked me bike."
"Where'd you leave it?"
"Out doors:, he said.
"You know better than to leave your bike outdoors in West Ham."
"right", he said,,,,and immediately settled back into his own state of mind, and I went home.
Cheers,
Jim
DiamondLady
New Member
There's actually a school of treatment that says it's best to let Alzheimer's patients live in the time where they are happiest and most comfortable. For instance, if Grandma believes Grandpa has gone fishing and will be back shortly for her and she's happy talking about that, then go along. It's not lying...those days really happened for her and she's reliving those happy moments.
DiamondLady
New Member
FAL, I think you're wrong here. First off, you are setting yourself in God's place by your statment "people who claim to be Christians." That's between each individual and God. Some people may not be as far in their Christian walk as you are. Some may not have the same relationship with God as you do. God may have set a higher bar for you, at this point in your life. It doesn't make another person less of a Christian, or not a Christian. Never forget that some Christians are still on the milk of the gospel while others are on the meat.
Secondly, I don't believe Christians figure out a way to "circumvent godliness." In today's world we have watered down the guilt of sin by changing it to sound less harsh. For instance, it's not adultery anymore, it's "having an affair." It's not sodomy, it's an "alternative lifestyle". We're not gluttons, we are simply too short for our weight. (Why I suggest everyone read Respectable Sins....very eye opening) We've decided God categorizes sin...and that some must be far, far worse than our little white lies, so we're okay.
Lastly, remember the old adage....you can catch more flies with honey, than you can with vinegar.