Who are God's chosen people?

1. I think that God has a separate economy for ethnic Israel. The "economy" is not about salvation at all. All people through all time have been saved in the same manner. This is an important distinction to keep in mind with those who are opposed to dispensational theology. I realize that many charlatans say otherwise, but God has only ONE plan and purpose. That will be accomplished. Nothing can stop it. His plan included Christ coming to earth and shedding his blood for the New Covenant. This was not conditioned on whether Israel would "accept" him or not. The church was always part of God's plan. There is NO Plan B with God. All of it is Plan A.

2. I will try to list some points. Let me know if you need further clarification.

a. Nothing happens apart from the will of God.
b. Christ came to (among other things - that wasn't his only purpose) save his people from their sins.
c. Christ gave a legitimate offer of the davidic kingdom to ethnic Israel.
d. Israel rejected.
e. This was part of God's plan (important point).
f. The New Covenant began when Christ died on the cross (when the veil was ripped down the middle).
g. The church began at Pentecost and is a partaker of the New Covenant.
h. The New Covenant has been initiated but is not here in its fullest sense.
i. Ethnic Israel will one day in the future repent and turn to the Lord.
j. At this time, they will be partakers of the New Covenant.
k. At this time, all other promises by God to ethnic Israel will be fulfilled.

So, it is all about God's glory (and has always been).

 

OK. Sorry about meandering off on the Throne of David.

About anyone, Jew, or not, I am not prepared to say whether they are with or without Christ. I agree with you concerning unbelievers, but I am not able to say who does and does not die without Christ.

Just being as honest as I can.

 

Amein!

Our God is, indeed, not finished with Israel. Every
Sabbath, when I attend synagogue, I look into
the faces of the seeds of His latter-day work
with Israel.

According to the Scriptures, there is going to be a
very difficult time for the Jews, and those who are
left will finally understand that the Messiah whose
hands are scarred is the One long sought. They
wil ask Him, "What are these scars?" and He will
answer that He received them in the house of His
friends. Many are turning to Him now!

Jewish believers may not call themselves
Christian, nevertheless, they are your brothers
and sisters, if you truly believe in the one true
God.

 

To the apostle, the Israel of God is synonymous with the new creation. Unlike the "old" Israel under the Old Covenant which had an old and vanishing way of approaching God, the "new" Israel is under the New Covenant and has access to God through a new and living way (Heb 10:20). It is comprised of both Jew and Gentile who have been made into one "new" man in Christ (Eph 2: 15) with a "new" commandment to love one another (John 13:34). Entrance into this "new" creation comes through the "new" birth which is brought about by grace, through faith in Christ and is not based on fleshly descent, social standing, or gender (Gal 3:28).

Thus in Paul’s mind there are two Israel’s that exist simultaneously in time and have always existed in this manner. That is why he can state categorically that



"For they are not all Israel who are who are of Israel" (Romans 9: 6 NKJV).

Try using this type of phraseology with any other nation or nationality and see how foolish it would be. Imagine saying that, "they are not all Arabs who are Arabs"! Or how about, "They are not all Eskimos who are Eskimos". It would make absolutely no sense whatsoever. But it makes perfect sense to use Paul’s language because there are two different Israel’s – one "after the flesh", the other "after the spirit". Look again at how Paul further differentiates between the two in that same letter to the Romans:

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." (Romans 2: 28-29).

We see the exact same truth referred to by none less than our Lord Jesus who in His revelation to the churches of Asia Minor addresses the churches at both Smyrna and Philadelphia in the following manner:

"I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." (Rev 2: 9).

"Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews, and are not, but lie – behold, I will make them to come and bow down at your feet, and to know that I have loved you". (Rev 3: 9).

There simply is no other way to explain this than to realize that not everyone who can trace his or her fleshly descent back to Abraham can be considered to be a Jew and thus a part of Israel. Otherwise we are left with the insane possibility of someone claiming to be of one race or nationality all the while belonging to another! Further proof of this truth is attested by our Lord’s remarks concerning Nathaniel in the gospel of John.

"And Nathaniel said to him, ‘Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?’ Philip said to him, "Come and see.’ Jesus saw Nathaniel coming to Him, and said of him, ‘Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!’ Nathaniel said to Him, ‘How do You know me?’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.’ Nathaniel answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel.’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You shall see greater things than these.’ And He said to him, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, you shall see the heavens opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.’" (John 1: 46-51).

The Lord Jesus calls Nathaniel an Israelite indeed or in truth. In contrast to the vast majority of the nation, Nathaniel was a true son of Jacob whom had seen the heavens opened centuries before with the angels of God ascending and descending upon a ladder. In the same manner in which God had changed this man of guile and duplicity into a true child of God and renamed him Israel, so too would Nathaniel be counted among those who had been recipients of the same work of divine grace in their heart? Clearly then it is no stretching of the Scriptures to categorically state that among the vast numbers of those who make up national Israel and call themselves Jews, there are those who belong to God and those who do not but are rather children of the devil. What else does the term, "synagogue" of Satan refer to?

This is precisely what Jesus told the Jews in the eighth chapter of John’s gospel.

"I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.’ They answered Him and said, ‘Abraham is our father.’ Jesus said to them, ‘If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father.’ They said to Him, ‘ We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.’ Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love Me; for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He send Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.’" (John 8: 38-44).

These Jews that our Lord was addressing were making a deadly and fatal mistake – they were relying on their fleshly descent from Abraham to secure the favor of God. They foolishly believed that the Father of spirits was so impressed with their physical lineage that He would somehow overlook the corruption that lurked in their hearts. The Lord Christ quickly dispelled them of that notion by informing them that they were the offspring of Satan! All He received for His efforts to correct them was their hatred and undying animosity as they attempted to stone Him to death!

Part of an article from: http://www.sovereigngracebible.org/

 

Here is the opening post of the thread. In this I read that the Throne of David is pertinent to the question at hand...this throne was not over the Gentiles, nor was it anywhere established over Israel but in Jerusalem; especially not in Heaven, where Christ now sits at the Right hand of the Father, but not on His own throne, which is the Throne of David.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Oh yes it was!

Dave

 

Quoting Dave White

The New Testament Perspective on Israel and the Land

The New Testament teaches that the formation, history and institutions of Israel were types and shadows of spiritual realities that would come in the days of the Messiah (Heb. 8:1-5; 1 Cor. 10:18). The essential elements of Israel's life as a covenant people (prophet, priest, king, sacrificial system, ark of the covenant, etc.) were all fulfilled in the person and work of Jesus Christ (Luke 24:27, 44-45; Rom. 15:8; 2 Cor. 1:20).

The preparatory nature of the Mosaic economy must be underscored. The law-covenant had an historical beginning and ending (Gal. 3:17, 19, 25). the old covenant was temporary and lasted only "until the Seed (Christ) had come." When the fulfillment had come there was no reason to continue the types and shadows (Col. 2:16-17). Israel as an earthly people separated to God by the Exodus was to be fulfilled by Christ, whose obedience unto death constituted a New Exodus that would separate a New Covenant people for God's service.

It is only in this light that the "promised land" must be evaluated. The land given to Israel was never intended to be an end in itself. It pointed to something better in the future. Even Abraham who received the promises did not focus on earthly geography, but rather on a "better country -- a heavenly one . . . whose architect and builder is God" (Heb. 11:16, 10). Like other aspects of Israel's covenant life, the land was a picture of gospel realities to come, not an ongoing entity to be somehow reclaimed in the future by an earthly people in 1948.

The concept of "Israel" is fulfilled both in Christ and in the new people of God, the body of Christ. Jesus, like Israel, is called out of Egypt (Matt. 2:15) and finds Himself in the wilderness (Matt. 4:1-2). 2 Jesus, unlike Israel, is obedient to the covenant and is the "faithful servant" referred to in the Prophets.

In light of the emphasis given to alleged unalterable made to Israel about the land, it is instructive to recall that God's words were addressed to Abraham and his "seed," says Paul, was singular and refers to Christ, not to an earthly people (Gal. 3:16). Thus, for example, the promised offspring to Abraham must be seen as an innumerable company of believers, not as a regathering of an earthly nation (Gal. 3:29; Rev. 5:9, 7:9). The physical descendants of Abraham, who indeed became like the sand of the sea in number, were a picture of the harvest Christ would accomplish in the gospel age from every tribe, kindred and people. For this reason believers can be referred to by Paul as "the Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16).

 

Isn't it odd that the Bible says nothing about Jews
being brought into Christianity, but is does
mention Gentiles being grafted into Israel?

Bluntly, I see a lot of extreme arrogance in the
churches -- the very arrogancce this Scripture
reprimands. Not only have many written off the
Jews, they have attempted to replace them in
their theology, eschatology, and other teachings.

But the churches are not all-powerful. Our God
is bringing in some Jews now, blessing them
with the knowledge of Y'shua in spite of the
churches. And He will, after much hardship upon
Israel, bring inn all who remain.

If the churches had not forgotten that our holy
God is all-powerful, that He means what He
says, that He will fulfill all He has said, that He is
the one in control and not the churches, they
would know these things.

 

quoting abiyah

Then I take it Abiyah that you do not accept Jesus Christ as Savior and the fulfillment of all of the law and prophets?

 

What? 8o) Did you read my post?

You are mistaken. Clearly, no covenant was ever
made with Gentiles, but covenants were made
with Israel. Our God has invited those who are
willing to come under the covanants to come
and be grafted in.

 

I want to know where the Bible teaches that Israel ater the flesh has a future in the purpose of God. The Bible seems to indicate otherwise.

 

Read the Scripture I quoted on page one of this
thread. If you still have the same question, we
can discuss it. 8o)

 

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: ~Romans 11:25, 26

The Greek word "so" (outwV) means "in this way." It does not mean "then" as the world tries to make it mean. The fullness of the Gentiles being come in = the salvation of all Israel. The two are mutually the same.

 

For I would not, brethren,....What mystery? That
that ye should be ignor-.....Gentiles are grafted
ant of this mystery, lest.......into Israel. Who is
ye should be wise in your...Israel? Those who
own conceits; that blind-....were chosen to guard
ness in part is happened.....the Promise and the
to Israel, until the fulness....covenants; those thru'
of the Gentiles be come......whom you received
in. And so all Israel shall.....them. Does the defini-
be saved: as it is written,.....tion suddenly change?
There shall come out of.......No. As the Deliverer
Sion the Deliverer, and.........came from specifically
shall turn away ungodli-......Zion, and as 'Jacob" is
ness from Jacob....................always a reference to
...................................................Israel. When has
"Jacob" ever been used in reference to anyone
other than Israel?

Only if you deny Israel as a nation is our God's
chosen people and accept replacement theology.

 

When a natural Jew dies, he dies chosen of God? That is foreign to the scriptures.

 

Absolutely not. An indivdual Jew is an indivdual
who must make a choice. It is the whole nation of
Israel that was chosen, not indivduals.

They guarded, and continue to guard, the Word.
They brought it to us. It was through them that
Messiah was born. It was their society that was
chosen in whic He lived. Our Lord was born a Jew,
and He died a practicing Jew.

Since Jews were the ones chosen of our God to
bring this about, no one owuld be saved, if not for
the Jews. It was they who were the prophets and
apostles. It is smply our God's plan.

Regardless, Jews are not to be lifted up, placed on
a pedestal; however, they should have the respect
given anyone else, and they should not be treated
with such disdain as I have seen from people
claiming to be believers.

8o) Of course, this is not what you are doing with
your questions; I just got on my high horse and
started complaining.

Bottom line: they are the chosen nation, a chosen
people, but a Jew who dies without our Lord is not
a chosen indivdual.

 

http://www.eschatology.org/articles/israelofgod/godspeople.htm

 

8o) We all believe what we will to believe.