Who are the ELECT?

So if Jesus Christ removed all the debt from ALL mankind then ALL are saved. Then there is no doctrine of election and ALL mankind and womankind are bound for heaven. That is of course unless you believe eternal salvation is conditional upon the dead alien sinner totally depraved from head to toe... Flip flop yo-yo Salvation... I'm OSAS a biblical teaching that declares you can NEVER fall from grace... I find eternal comfort in that do you in your theology?... Brother Glen

 

Hi Tyndale;

Jesus Christ died so that your sins could be forgiven. This forgiveness is available but there are requirements. Trust, Confession, and repentance, are a must. We have all been chosen to have this forgiveness to be available to us, but it's conditional.

This is what election is about we are elected for Salvation, not to Salvation. Forgiveness is available for everyone who meets the requirements. Yes Christ died for the sins of everyone of us, that we might be forgiven.

May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Wes... Double Jeopordy!!

Boy I'm glad my unbelieving dad is going to heaven since His dept has been paid.. he doesn't have to pay the SENTANCE since it was paid for him! Wes, you not only have to go back to school to understand legal civil justice but God's justice also.. (there is a differance)

You also have no idea what a Jew knows about atonement to get even a better idea.... The atonement sacrifice was for ONLY THE CHOSEN OF GOD and not the gentile. The sacrifice would only cover the Jew.
John 10:14-15 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.

 

RC;
All you do is boast about your self

See what I mean. Did you know that your relative Benny Hinn is a Jew just like you. So does being a Jew make you any more than any Gentile? I don't think so. Besides can you prove that you're of the seed of Jacob? If not, you really don't know Huh?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

John 10:14-15 14 I am the good shepherd. I know MY OWN and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP.

ILL, Wes ... your grasp of Jewish knowledge and the O.T. is beyond ignorance.

Answer the question then I'll answer yours... did the lamb sacrifice offered fall ALL the nations or just the JEWS (chosen of God)..

 

Hi Wes;
Good one;A MEN and AMEN.
Mike

 

Here again is a perfect example of not being able to reconcile the differances, so you go to personal attacks without an answer.

Have you ever heard of the "Law of Exegetical Constancy"? I know you havn't because you show your sophmorish, butchering of the text every time you try to use it. The actualized always follows the type... If the type (lamb sacrifice) was for the chosen, then the actualized HAS to be for "the chosen".... Else God's word would be inconsistant... I'm sure that's no big deal for you though since everything you try to do is so fragmented it could be only understood by someone with alzeimers.

 

Wrong Wes... the type STAYS THE SAME that's the whole point you obviously don't understand... or else the type isn't consistant!!!!!
The atonement was for God's chosen. That statement is true for the old testament and MUST be true for the new. The only problem is you don't want to believe it, so you piece togther a bad system of sotierology so you can stay with your ideas... Christ layed down His life for HIS sheep... not ALL.

 

rc,

If you think that the O.T. economy was only for the Israelites, you are somewhat wrong at this beginning point. The whole concept of the Court of the Gentiles tells us that the door was open in the Temple for even non-Jewish converts under the former covenant. You wanted a ‘typology’ and now you have one that you cannot fully explain to us.

Rahab who saved the spies and Ruth—the Moabitess and under the N.T., the author of Luke and Acts are from Lukan authorship. As you probably know Luke the physician was from a Greek cultural background who was not Jewish indicating that typeologies are not always exacting.

The High Priest went into the Holy of Holies in the Temple once a year on the Day of Atonement. This typeology does not mean that our Lord has to go into His Temple only once a year on the date of His crucifixion. Every detail of the O.T. typeologies are not necessarily to be brought forward into the N.T. covenant.

The Lord Jehovah of the former covenant was not a 'Purist'; He welcomed all who would believe in Him. From Adam to the Last Day God will be welcoming not only Jews but Gentiles into His church and Kingdom.

Under the O.T. the lamb or dove was the sacrifice; since the Cross the lamb was and is Jesus. The animal lamb had no saving value in and of itself, but Jesus the Lamb of God can take away sins. A typeology gives a general message, but every detail of the type cannot be moved forward into this era of time since the Cross.

 

Wes, Nice little word search you have there...
Now have some lexicons to understand the 8 different ways John himself uses the word?

Ray, good points. Hard to explain why but type is in the fomal not substancial. Like the amount of times (annual) and the Gentile court (still Jewish in the heart) are not formal but substancial. I know you'll ask me why and I understand, but I'll put it on the back-burner for now. The animal lamb DID NOT have saving value you are correct. It was and always was the intent of the heart of the one who would come that was found saving. Still the lamb sacrificed was not for the world. (This word, world Wes continues to misunderstand) The world to a Jew meant MANY things, depending on context. Why? Because of their "special" circumstances their terminology has quarks in their grammer engrained. World can mean Jews/Gentiles, It can mean believers/non believers it can mean non-believing Jews and non-believing Gentiles or strict spiritual sense it is a WAY of NON belief...You have to understand when it Says Jesus died for the WORLD it is NOT so easy as it is in the English. It was a Jew speaking to a Jew in most circumstances and the context MUST be understood along with the Jewsih understanding. A good Bible to get to help get a Jewish perspective on CERTAIN things is the Jewish New Testament Commentary by David H. Stern. I recommend this to you because he is of an Arminian ilk, so it won't tick you off and will give you some understanding from the Tanakh and mishnah's. I gave you some "ammo" from a Jewish perspective, but that's alright.

 

Hi RC;
Are you starting to define Greek words with Hebrew definitions now. Because the Hebrews didn't have a dictionary from which to define there own language much less Greek.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike