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Who are the ELECT?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Wes Outwest, Dec 24, 2004.

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  1. rc

    rc New Member

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    Go to school Wes... I don't have time to teach you anymore. Don't mock what you don't know. I guess "The seventy" where just guessing when they translated the Hebrew into Greek and all the hundreds of targums and mishna's don't know what they are talking about either when giving the "paradise" meanings of a text either... Don't know what "paradise" meanings are do you?... Go back to school...
     
    #101 rc, Jan 19, 2005
  2. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Well the truth of the matter is this:
    NO dictionary existed for any of the ancient languages. So, in an effort to "standardize" the understanding of words, persons skilled in more than one language attempted to define the ancient languages and to give us moderns a basis for the meaning of words in the ancient language. Thus the contents of Lexicons are the opinions of Man. Their opinions may range from "dead-on" to "somewhere in the vicinity", to "no where close". So in reality it is not a precise science, but rather, rational opinion.
     
    #102 Wes Outwest, Jan 19, 2005
  3. rc

    rc New Member

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    Then when it says Jesus died for the world, you really can't say He really "died" or... the world was really the world...we really can't say?
     
    #103 rc, Jan 19, 2005
  4. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    But there are eye witness reports to the fact that Jesus died!

    There are eye witness reports to the fact that he was seen alive by MANY persons at some time in the 40 days after his death.

    There is written testimony by the eye witnesses to the things that Jesus said, the deeds he did, etc.

    The dictionary terms that we use in our modern language are sufficient to revealing the true message revealed in the original language to the various people group languages. So when the translations say that Jesus died for the sin of the world, I'm really impressed! What a Savior!
     
    #104 Wes Outwest, Jan 20, 2005
  5. rc

    rc New Member

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    I don't know if there were any "eye witness" reports or people seen Him "ALIVE" "AFTER" His death.. these words we can't believe to be undersood. These words might have had differant meanings back then. We don't have dictionaries form back then to know... Maybe they were alogories! Maybe the word "alive" back then just meant "Kept alive in memory" by people... We can't tell anymore because Wes says we can't put proper understandings on words...
     
    #105 rc, Jan 26, 2005
  6. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    You want the evidence from secular sources? There are references identified in Josh McDowell's book "Evidence that demands a verdict" and the sequal to it. Suggest you obtain or borrow a copy of them, the facts are intensely researched and documented. I don't have a copy with me at the moment or I would quote them for you.
     
    #106 Wes Outwest, Jan 26, 2005
  7. rc

    rc New Member

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    Wes,

    I know the books and know them WELL... The humorous thing about that is I'm using the arguements FROM that book (mostly vol. 1) against you! Where do you think Josh gets his arguement about the virgin birth from? And if you look back at the thread, I used the very same arguement AGAINST YOU ! ha ! I think YOU need to read ETDAV over again... It's your liberal linuistic philosophy that Josh is refuting!! The word for virgin in the BHS CAN be used for "young woman", BUT you HAVE TO RELY on the LXX for the arguement that the Seventy knew EXACTLY what was meant in the HEBREW text and translated in the Greek explicitly "VIRGIN". It's your liberal philossophy that says we can't trust men's "opinions" and we didn't have old lexicons to be able to properly translate the Hebrew meanings into Greek not me !! You just used your own agruement against yourself ! Read Josh again my boy! I'm fearful of what you think about Wellhaussen and the JEDP theory (that's vol. 2 if you didn't know) I gues your a anti-supernaturalist also huh?
     
    #107 rc, Jan 26, 2005
  8. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    What difference does it make? You either beleive that Jesus is God the son, or you don't! Mary was merely an instrument used by God to introduce HIS only begotten son to mankind.

    The text regarding Mary includes "her" statement that she has not known a man, and in our modern vernacular, that means VIRGIN!
     
    #108 Wes Outwest, Jan 26, 2005
  9. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi RC;
    What's next; Are you going to attack the deity of Christ as well and tell us that He didn't really die on the cross but left the country and married Mary Magnaline, had children and lived out His life in another country. I beginning to think that maybe you're an Agnostic. [​IMG]
    Have a bright day;
    Mike :D
     
    #109 ILUVLIGHT, Jan 26, 2005
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    This may have been posted earlier but you might try reading Ephesians 1:3-6 [and the us is not limited to the Apostles].

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
     
    #110 OldRegular, Feb 7, 2005
  11. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    OldRegular,

    Notice verse 13 where Paul shifts from describing the beginning of the church to describing who is included in the church.

    Then we look at John 17 and see what Jesus had to say about the Apostles. With Just a little thought you can see that Paul is telling the Ephesians about the Apostles, the foundation of the church, while in John 17, Jesus is describing HIS ELECT!
     
    #111 Wes Outwest, Feb 7, 2005
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