convicted1
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If we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, how can we be chosen in Him and yet an unregenerated sinner?
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Who are the elect?
- Thread starter Winman
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If we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, how can we be chosen in Him and yet an unregenerated sinner?
No matter how many times Calvinists put out the fiction that fallen man in his natural unregenerate state, cannot seek God, it remains twaddle.
Anyone who can read can read 1 Corinthians 2:14 to 3:3 and see that the things of the Spirit are the meat of God's Word, things that need to be discerned by the aid of our indwelt Spirit, but men of flesh can understand the milk of the gospel, and therefore respond in a way that God could choose to credit as righteousness.
Regeneration means to be originated again, i.e born anew, and this occurs after a person is spiritually placed in Christ. When we are separated from Christ we are dead, but when we are together with Christ, alive, reborn, a new creation. All this twaddle about being "quickened" before we are spiritually in Christ is mere word play. Quickened means to be made alive!!!!!
So by the numbers, we are put in Christ and sealed in Him after we have believed, not before. Ephesians 1:13.
We are made alive together with Christ, Ephesians 2:5
Therefore we are not quickened in order to believe. QED
Anyone who can read can read 1 Corinthians 2:14 to 3:3 and see that the things of the Spirit are the meat of God's Word, things that need to be discerned by the aid of our indwelt Spirit, but men of flesh can understand the milk of the gospel, and therefore respond in a way that God could choose to credit as righteousness.
Regeneration means to be originated again, i.e born anew, and this occurs after a person is spiritually placed in Christ. When we are separated from Christ we are dead, but when we are together with Christ, alive, reborn, a new creation. All this twaddle about being "quickened" before we are spiritually in Christ is mere word play. Quickened means to be made alive!!!!!
So by the numbers, we are put in Christ and sealed in Him after we have believed, not before. Ephesians 1:13.
We are made alive together with Christ, Ephesians 2:5
Therefore we are not quickened in order to believe. QED
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All mankind is born into this world as natural man without any righteousness because of Adam's sin, even his elect until he quickens them to a spiritual life. God looked down from heaven to see if there were that would seek him, and saw that there were none that doeth good, no, not one. Thats why he choose a people unto himself and made provision for Christ to reconcile them back to him. God only quickens his elect to a spiritual life. The rest remain but natural beings left to their own destruction.If we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, how can we be chosen in Him and yet an unregenerated sinner?
I used the "OLT", Old's Literal Translation. It became outdated, I guess, and Young came along with the YLT. :laugh:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Well, this verse states the "elect" were chosen in Him. How can we be in Him before the foundation of the world, and then be saved and placed in Him?
We were chosen in him doesn't mean we were in him at the time we were chosen. So before the foundation of the world, we were chosen in Christ. We were placed in Christ at our salvation.
Well worded forest. God elects because he knows that none would seek after him. Election isn't about keeping people out of heaven but keeping people out of hell. Election doesn't prevent anyone from getting into heaven.
just one correction that I want to address...
When..when a person is spiritually placed in Christ. Not after. There are no unregenerate people in Christ.
now to more general comments...
The elect are the ones that are going to be regenerate. God has chosen certain people. This isn't based on anything good in the person. It's not based on a good decision. It's totally based on the good pleasure of his will. We cannot boast of our salvation in any way shape or form. Even my believing is not of my own doing. I naturally wanted to not believe. God in his mercy because of his great love made us alive together with Christ. By grace we have been saved!
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convicted1
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Well, the DoG version of election has God keeping people out of heaven by merely not choosing them. They say that the DoG model of election is "inclusive", but in reality, it's "exclusive". It's excluded to the non-elect, therefore keeping them from any chance of going there.
The natural man is void of the Spirit, and without the presence of the Spirit they can not descern anything of a spiritual nature, no, not even the milk of the word. God says if they have not the Spirit, they are none of his. Only the person that has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can descern spiritual things. You are going to have to strech some scriptures to great lengths to make your doctrine harmonise with all scriptures.
convicted1
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Well, "in" means in, "out" means out, "apart" means apart, "seperated" means seperated.......
In Christ, means in Christ.......
In other words, "Why doth he still find fault?"
Alive in Christ
New Member
who are the elect?
Why, the "whosoeverwills" of course. :godisgood:
Why, the "whosoeverwills" of course. :godisgood:
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Do you believe that God has not chosen some to be saved?
of course. But it doesn't say we were in Christ before the foundation of the world.
even as he(Father) chose us in him(Christ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
(Ephesians 1:4 ESV)
Anyway you look at it, the passage says that election took place before the foundation of the world.
If we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, how can we be chosen in Him and yet an unregenerated sinner?
same way that the Lord can see us being here upon the earth, while at same time in the heavenlies with Christ!
God is not stuck in time, as He sees us as both sinners/saints, as he predestined to them whould would be the receipts of his ordained grace to be confirmed into the Image of jesus Christ!
other way way around...
God has ordained and brings to salvation those whom He has chosen in Christ to get saved!
convicted1
Guest
I believe that He chose His Son to die for sinful man. Those who choose to obey His calling will be saved.
Jesus atoned for the sin of the world, and of those who choose to believe, He will save. Jesus paid the sin debt in full. Every and all sins were placed upon Him, when He died on the cross.
like to link this with the part in Acts , in which the bible states that all of the Gentiles that were preappointed beforehand by God to receive salvation heard the Gospel and believed!
Individual basis of the election, as jesus died to atone for each saved persons sins, not just for the 'corporate Body!"
I'm probably going to get in trouble for asking this from my non cal friends, but did God create man knowing he would fall and then leave it to chance that some would call on Him for salvation? Or did He elect some to salvation to assure that His plan of salvation came to pass?
convicted1
Guest
Boy, when you ask questions, you ASK questions. Remember, the scriptures state, "Who has known the mind of the Lord, and who can be His councellor?"
To me, God had to know what Adam and Eve would do. To state otherwise is challenging His omniscience. God placed the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil in the Garden. Before I give a response, I need to study this more.....
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