yes, but ONLY the elect will actually 'will" themselves to come unto Christ in order to get saved!
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Who are the elect?
- Thread starter Winman
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yes, but ONLY the elect will actually 'will" themselves to come unto Christ in order to get saved!
I believe that He chose His Son to die for sinful man. Those who choose to obey His calling will be saved.
Jesus atoned for the sin of the world, and of those who choose to believe, He will save. Jesus paid the sin debt in full. Every and all sins were placed upon Him, when He died on the cross.
You didn't answer my question. Let me reword it.
Do you believe that God has not chosen some to be saved?....reworded as...
do you believe that there are some people God has chosen not to save. Regardless of reason....
You didn't answer my question. Let me reword it.
Do you believe that God has not chosen some to be saved?....reworded as...
do you believe that there are some people God has chosen not to save. Regardless of reason....
yep. those who have by their own "free will" have rejected Christ, just doing what they wanted and came "naturally" to them!
And THEy were NOT chosen by God to unbelief, He allowed them to get what they really desired!
Reply to Fiction
You have made a charge against God's elect, saying they are without any righteousness, which is fiction because Romans 8:33 says no charge can be brought against God's elect. By logical necessity people are not chosen for salvation before they live without mercy as children of wrath.
Quickening occurs when a person is spiritually placed in Christ after they believe. Ephesians 1:13 and 2:5
All mankind is born into this world as natural man without any righteousness because of Adam's sin, even his elect until he quickens them to a spiritual life. God looked down from heaven to see if there were that would seek him, and saw that there were none that doeth good, no, not one. Thats why he choose a people unto himself and made provision for Christ to reconcile them back to him. God only quickens his elect to a spiritual life. The rest remain but natural beings left to their own destruction.
You have made a charge against God's elect, saying they are without any righteousness, which is fiction because Romans 8:33 says no charge can be brought against God's elect. By logical necessity people are not chosen for salvation before they live without mercy as children of wrath.
Quickening occurs when a person is spiritually placed in Christ after they believe. Ephesians 1:13 and 2:5
They have no righteousness of their own, only the imputed righteousness of Christ. They are placed in Christ before they believe, faith is a fruit of the Spirit. No one has spiritual faith that does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.You have made a charge against God's elect, saying they are without any righteousness, which is fiction because Romans 8:33 says no charge can be brought against God's elect. By logical necessity people are not chosen for salvation before they live without mercy as children of wrath.
Quickening occurs when a person is spiritually placed in Christ after they believe. Ephesians 1:13 and 2:5
convicted1
Guest
They have no righteousness of their own, only the imputed righteousness of Christ. They are placed in Christ before they believe, faith is a fruit of the Spirit. No one has spiritual faith that does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Show me where anyone is placed in Christ prior to belief/faith. It's not in there.
You have made a charge against God's elect, saying they are without any righteousness, which is fiction because Romans 8:33 says no charge can be brought against God's elect. By logical necessity people are not chosen for salvation before they live without mercy as children of wrath.
Quickening occurs when a person is spiritually placed in Christ after they believe. Ephesians 1:13 and 2:5
None has any inherit rightousness, apart from that which God credits to our behalf in person of jesus!
before the Lord effectually applies that rightousness towards us, we are ALL condemned and under judgement, due to be sinners by birth and choice, its our very natures...
faith appropiates the saving Grace of God, but ONLY the elect of God can decide to accept to accept jesus and get saved, all others stay lost and in their sins, that is their own decision, which god honors!
God changes the natures of the sinners, thus they accept jesus and confirm their election from God, and God honors the will of the lost to stay as they are!
If true all Gentiles will be lost.yes, but ONLY the elect will actually 'will" themselves to come unto Christ in order to get saved!
MB
This isn't in scripture where God chose some not to be saved. So why should anyone believe it?You didn't answer my question. Let me reword it.
Do you believe that God has not chosen some to be saved?....reworded as...
do you believe that there are some people God has chosen not to save. Regardless of reason....
MB
If true all Gentiles will be lost.
MB
And the reason would be?
Forest's dodge
You made a charge against God's elect, which violates Romans 8:33. When people are conceived in iniquity, when by nature they are children of wrath, they cannot be elect, because no charge can be brought against God's elect. Strike One.
Ephesians 1:13 says we are placed in Christ after we believe, what verse do you have that says before? Strike Two.
According to Hebrews 11, all the Old Testament Saints obtained approval through faith, yet the promise of the New Covenant had not yet occurred, but the indwelling did occur about 50 days after Christ died. Christ, who had ascended sent the "helper" which is our indwelt Holy Spirit. Thus the whole Old Testament demonstrates your claim that no one can have faith except by being indwelt first is false. Strike Three
They have no righteousness of their own, only the imputed righteousness of Christ. They are placed in Christ before they believe, faith is a fruit of the Spirit. No one has spiritual faith that does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
You made a charge against God's elect, which violates Romans 8:33. When people are conceived in iniquity, when by nature they are children of wrath, they cannot be elect, because no charge can be brought against God's elect. Strike One.
Ephesians 1:13 says we are placed in Christ after we believe, what verse do you have that says before? Strike Two.
According to Hebrews 11, all the Old Testament Saints obtained approval through faith, yet the promise of the New Covenant had not yet occurred, but the indwelling did occur about 50 days after Christ died. Christ, who had ascended sent the "helper" which is our indwelt Holy Spirit. Thus the whole Old Testament demonstrates your claim that no one can have faith except by being indwelt first is false. Strike Three
This isn't in scripture where God chose some not to be saved. So why should anyone believe it?
MB
So God chose to save everyone?
Obviously not.
so there are some that God has chosen not to save. Unless God is unable to save some, which would deny His omniscience.
So God chose to save everyone?
Obviously not.
so there are some that God has chosen not to save. Unless God is unable to save some, which would deny His omniscience.
Maybe better to say that there were some God chose to save, as rest were left to their own natural will and desires?
Does God desire that all men be saved? Does this men God will save everyone, or is it more correct to say God will save those whose faith He credits as righteousness. Therefore many are called. Christ is the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world. But only those who receive the reconciliation are saved, therefore the call, be reconciled to God."
convicted1
Guest
You didn't answer my question. Let me reword it.
Do you believe that God has not chosen some to be saved?....reworded as...
do you believe that there are some people God has chosen not to save. Regardless of reason....
The classic "knee jerk" reaction to your first question would be "yes". But, satan and the angels who rebelled with him, aren't given a chance.
Now, I don't think God has chosen to not save anyone that came from Adam and Eve.
So God chose to save everyone?
Obviously not.
so there are some that God has chosen not to save. Unless God is unable to save some, which would deny His omniscience.
You have yet to show scriptural proof of your theory. Not one verse ever says God chose some to not be saved. God and the Bible are not logical according to men never have been. To be chosen means that Christ is the propitation for the whole world. Where is particular election in that? Simply there is none. If man isn't saved it isn't so because God did not choose him. It because the man rebeled and would not submit to the righteousness of God. Just as Paul's brother Jews in Rom. 10:1-4
MB
MB.
This is incoherent. What were you trying to say?...take your time...and get out a whole thought...
To be chosen means that Christ is the propitation for the whole world
This is incoherent. What were you trying to say?...take your time...and get out a whole thought...
Not unless it was His determined will would it have any effect on His omniscience. However it is not His determined will that anyone in particular be saved against there own wills. God is Love and Because of this man must love Him back of his own freewill. Calvinist seem to ignore this fact. That love Is;So God chose to save everyone?
Obviously not.
so there are some that God has chosen not to save. Unless God is unable to save some, which would deny His omniscience.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
How can God be love and force man in to a false one sided relationship?
MB
Rom 8:13, God choose his elect before the foundation of the world and secured their eternal salvation by the adoption of children by Christ on the cross Eph 1. Even those elect, when they are born into this world as natural beings until God quickens them to a spiritual life were in a covenant relationship with God by his choosing them before he formed the world while they are in the state of being natural beings. They are secured by the work on the cross even in a state of being but natural. Eph 1:13, They "trusted" after they heard and believed(being regenerated). Being "sealed"(confirmed that you have been regenerated), with that Holy Spirit of promise. Eph 4:30, And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. In the old testement the Holy Spirit was "UPON" them. Our faith comes as a fruit of the Spirit. You cannot pick an orange except from an orange tree, you cannot have faith unless it comes from the Spirit because it is a fruit of the Spirit.You made a charge against God's elect, which violates Romans 8:33. When people are conceived in iniquity, when by nature they are children of wrath, they cannot be elect, because no charge can be brought against God's elect. Strike One.
Ephesians 1:13 says we are placed in Christ after we believe, what verse do you have that says before? Strike Two.
According to Hebrews 11, all the Old Testament Saints obtained approval through faith, yet the promise of the New Covenant had not yet occurred, but the indwelling did occur about 50 days after Christ died. Christ, who had ascended sent the "helper" which is our indwelt Holy Spirit. Thus the whole Old Testament demonstrates your claim that no one can have faith except by being indwelt first is false. Strike Three
You are not understanding 1 Cor 2:14.Does God desire that all men be saved? Does this men God will save everyone, or is it more correct to say God will save those whose faith He credits as righteousness. Therefore many are called. Christ is the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world. But only those who receive the reconciliation are saved, therefore the call, be reconciled to God."
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