Who are the parties of the New Covenant?

Pastor Larry,

I understand of Jeremiah 31:31-34 predicted that God shall make new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, what it is talking about.

When Joshua and his army enter the land of Canaan. God made first covenant with them, that they shall possess land, if they obey and keep the commandement. For 400 years, there was no king in Israel. There were about 12 judges for Israel within 400 years in the book of Judges. Israel was tired of having judges, also, they want rid of God as 'theoracy' to rule over Israel. They want to have own king. So, God allowed Israel to have own king. Israel had a first king - Saul. God sent Prophet Samuel to anointed Saul to became king. Somehow, later Saul disobey God's commandment several times. God fed up with Saul. God sent Prophet Samuel to King Saul. Samuel told King Saul, that he have sinned against God, so, the kingdom of Israel shall be divided into two kingdoms. First, there was all tribes together in the same kingdom. All 12 tribes were unity together in the same kingdom under the reign of King Saul & David also, Solomon too.

When after King Solomon became pride and commit adultery with many women. God punished Israel, made it divided into two kingdoms. Two tribes under the house of Judah, ten tribes under the house of Israel. I think the house of Judah was southern, the house of Israel was northern.

Both failed the first covenant because of their sins against God.

SO.... God told them, He'll make a new covenant with both (Jer. 31:31-34), what 'new covenant' speak of what? Through Christ's blood(suggest read book of Hebrews talk lot about the covenant).

Jer. 31:31-34 already fulfilled in Hebrews 8:8-13 through Calvary 2,000 years ago. Old covenant already vanish away, no longer under the old covenant, NOW we are under the new covenant because of Christ's blood.

Understand, Old Testament was filled with shadows of the prophecies speak of Christ. Old Testament used physical things like as tabernacle, ark of covenant, daily sacrifices, etc. to represent Jesus Christ as shadow. When Christ came to earth, He already make manifest to Jews that He is the Messiah, and made a new covenant through his blood (Mark 14:24).

When we are in the New Testament, N.T. speaks of spiritual things to apply O.T. shadows speak of Jesus Christ.

Dispensationalism emphasis O.T. prophecies telling us, that Jews shall have their land again as they shall possess it again in the future. That shall be during Millennial KIngdom.

I urge you to read Hebrews 11:8-10 tell us of Abraham, he had faith, without seeing and know the future. As he journey looking forward for a holy city. Abraham was not looking forward for earthly city (which is present city -Modern Jerusalem in the Middle East). He was looking forward for a HOLY city which was make by God's hand. Obivously, it speaks of New Jerusalem(Rev. 21:2).

Galatians 4:26 tells us, Jerusalem is from above(heaven) which is the mother of ALL. That means it includes both O.T. saints & N.T. saints . Rev. 21:9, 12-14 show us, both O.T. saints and N.T. saints NOW have inherit of everlasting thing from above is New Jerusalem through Jesus Christ.

Not only New Jerusalem, also, both O.T. saints and N.T saints shall share dwell on new earth forever and ever.

I understand Jer. 31:31-34 speak to both the house of Israel and house of Judah(Jeremiah, the prophet spoken to them, while they were DIVIDED in his time in year around 500 B.C.), that God promised to them, He'll make a new covenant with them, it speaks of Calvary. Calvary already reconciled them together into one at once (Eph. 2:12-22).

I hear the theory of the 'Lost Two Tribes of Israel'. Because of Revelation chapter 7. I do not buy that theory.

Both house of Judah & house of Israel are ALREADY reconciled together through Calvary at once.

You will not find a single anywhere in the New Testament saying, Jews shall possess their land again in the future.

Galatians chapter 3 tells us, both Jews and Gentiles are NOW inherit everlasting or heavenly things because of their faith in Christ through the covenant.

Of course, I am aware of dispensationalists might saying, 'house of Israel' & 'house of Judah' both are literal physical nations of Jeremiah 31:31.

I do NOT deny 'house of Judah' of 'house of Israel' both were literal physical nations of Jer. 31:31.

When we look to Hebrews 8:8-13, it does not speak of physical nation, but spiritual meaning speak of calvary already reconciled both together. So, the old covenant already vanish away 2,000 years. Now we are under the covenant.

I hope that you understand what the book of Hebrews talking about. To every Christians, I urge you to read and study whole book of Hebrews talk lot about covenant, blood, priest, and sacrifice. All of these focus toward on Jesus Christ and Calvary.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I think a few of you have totally missed it!
The New covenant is NOT about earthly posessions it is about Eternal Life offered to all mankind By Gods Grace through the suffering, death, burial and resurrection of out Lord Jesus Christ
the covenant Jesus Christ made was eternal life!

Hebrews 10

1. For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9. Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13. From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16. This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17. And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21. And having an high priest over the house of God;
22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33. Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

The New covenant passage in Hebrews 8 does not change the parties. It, in fact, reiterates it. The New covenant in Christ's blood was the basis on which the New Covenant can be enacted. None of that changes the clear teaching of the Jer and Ezek passage.

I am currently preaching through the book of Hebrews ... well, actually getting ready to return to it after a six month hiatus. Hebrews makes clear all the promises of the OT have not been changed or reordered. Those to whom they were promised can expect them to be fulfilled.

One of the great problems in theology is when people reassign the meaning of passages to fit a system. What happens is that God's faithfulness and truthfulness is impugned. When he makes a promise to one party, he cannot change that promise to give it to someone else. The plain meaning of the test must be honored.

Another common mistake is appealing to passages that talk about the church as if they talk about OT Israel. A common example was repeated by Deafpostrib, when he cites Galatians 3 as proof of the transfer of the NC promise. But Galatians 3 is clear proof that such cannot be. It clearly states that the promise was not made void. Therefore, it is still in effect. What Galatians 3 does is talk about the church, not about Israel. These are common mistakes because of the lack of study.

He says that you will not find a single passage in teh NT saying that Jews will possess their land in the future. While that is not exactly true since Acts 3 promises a restoration of all things related to the Abrahamic covenant and teh land is certainly one of "all things," his whole point is based on a faulty view of inspiration. The OT was equally inspired and truthful. It is not subjugated to the NT. When God made a promise in the OT, it is still a promise in the NT. We cannot arbitrarily decide that certain promises of God don't matter anymore because they don't fit our system. We must honor all the text of Scripture.

 

watch my lips
THE NEW COVENANT IS JESUS CHRIST!

 

Forget your lips. Read the Bible. The New covenant is the giving of a new heart to the house of Israel and house of Judah. At least, that is what God said it was. On what basis do you disagree with him?

 

Pastor Larry,

Galatians 3 does not saying Israel being excluded from this passage. You have to be realize, Abraham lived during in the Old Testament period, he was saved by faith, just same as we faith in Christ. There is no difference between Abraham's faith and our faith, both are same in God's sight of salvation.

Galatians 3 teaches us very clear, once you faith in Christ, you are on the same boat as Abraham sits. Same with the Old Testament saints ride on the same boat, as they have faith on Christ. O.T. saints now have inherit of the new covenant after the result of Calvary.

O.T. saints faith toward(forward or future) Calvary, N.T. saints faith toward(backward or past) Calvary. Both are same on the boat. Both are share on the same covenant through Jesus Christ's blood.

Later tonight, I will discuss on 'Israel' & 'Church'. Or, I will start new topic on this. I want to tell you(everyone) more clear that I do not believe or teaching on Replacement Theology. As many premills accuse on amills that they teaching Replacement Theology. They misunderstanding each other, what they really believe.

I know many premills do not teaching Replacement Theology, in their honest, they do not believe in Replacement Theology. I agree with premills, that Replacement Theology is unbiblical.

Yet, premil/disp teaching there is distinction between Israel & Church. Then, I consider premil/disp teaching Replacement Theology. Huh?

Because, disps teaching that God puts Israel on the shelf, and He is focusing on Church right now, till Rapture comes. God removed Church away, then He takes Israel off the shelf, and start to focus on Israel again during so called, 'Seven Year of Tribulation Period'. This teaching sounds to me it is Replacement Theology. Sorry to saying it. I do not mean to offend your beliefs about the difference between Israel & Church. But, that what I have seen them teaching so far.

John Darby was the first person to see the distinction of Israel & Church. That why Darby was the founder or father of Dispensationalism.

Later tonight, I will discuss on scriptures more depth about Israel/Church.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

God gives a new heart speaks of spiritual, not physical.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I do not disagree with it at all
my question to you is why can you not see that His covenant points to the Coming Messiah?
you seem to be having trouble looking at Gods covenant throughthe eyes of the flesh instead of the eyes of the Spirit Pastor
if you dont see every passage in the Old Testament pointing to the coming Messiah and the Promise (covenant, contract) of God in the new testament Revealed you have missed the whole point in why the Lord our God gave this Bible to read.
Take this in the manner I intended, out of Christian love.

I will not debate this any further
May God enlighten youre hearts
God bless you all
Mike.

 

Archeryaddict,

Please be patience with Pastor Larry and anyone who disagree with you. Be positive with them while debate with them. I have been debate with them for over 2 years now. I have been patience with them. I do not give up on them. But, I do not push them to change their beliefs. I just showing the truths from the Bible to them in love, that's all I can do.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

p.s. I used to live in Chattanooga, TN several years ago. I wonder, where church you attend? Have you ever hear Highland Park Baptist Church before? Have you hear Tennessee Temple University before?

 

post trib
yes I know where Highland Park Baptist is, awesome church that is on FIRE for God! ya one of the largest fully credited Baptist Seminary Clooedges in the United States besides Liberty U.


I actually attend a Church in Rossville Georgia called Shiloh Baptist Church.
If you are ever in Chattanooga please come visit us. I am sure you will get a blessing.
PS if you come early enough for Sunday school ask someone to take y6ou to the Agape class.

 

Archeryaddict,

This Friday, I will drive from Michigan, down to Florida visit my parents' new house on my vacation. I will drive past Chattanooga on I-75. But, I will not stop in Chattanooga. I will visit my old deaf bible college in Ringgold, GA for a while.

I will drive back to Michigan on Jan 4th. I will stop visit my two friends in La Fayatee, GA, then visit friend in Nashville, TN. Stay overnight at his house watch Orange Bowl. Then go home to Michigan.

I wish I can stop and visit your place. Or, why not eat at Fazoli's in Fort Olgethrope on Battlefield Hwy? Or another restaurant whatsoever you want to meet you there while on the way to Nashville. Let me know. Thanks.

By the way, I am sure that you are pretrib, but not agree with dispensationalism, correct?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I would love to Meet up and have lunch with you but Not sure if My schedule would permit.
if you keep going up HY 2A across HY 27 you will see Shiloh about a mile past 27 on the right look for the red and white lighthouse

I believe in the pre trib rapture of the Church
meaning that jesus will recieve us unto Himself, all of those who are dead and alive in Christ during the church age will be taken off the planet to be with the Father and the Son when the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth before the 7 year tribulation. I beliece that Christs second coming is when He Physically stands on the mount just before Armageddon and casts satan and his followers into the pit.
I do not believe Christ will return in 2 stages
so I suppose I do not believe in the dispenationalist theroy.

 

Again Larry, I have already pointed out two N.T. texts. The Hebrews text also shows that we are currently in the N.C.

Now, even though the promise is made with Israel, God has expanded it through Christ and his seed (those who come to faith in him).

This doesn't nullify that Israel will partake in it. They will.

 

I believe the millenium is part of the New Covenant era, also.

And if it is, shouldn't we be keeping the holy days of the New Covenant: the Sabbath (Isa. 66:23) and the Lord's "appointed times" (Zechariah 14:16-19) ?

The Bible Scriptures (above) say these days will be kept by all mankind, when the LORD returns to reign on Earth.

 

Never said it did. I pointed out that Galatians 3 is about the church (where Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ), not about the OT nation of Israel.

Again, true. I don't dispute that. The only difference is the content of that faith.

This is often repeated but never shown from Scripture. There is not one OT passage where Christ is made the content of saving faith.

Actually Paul was the first (Gal 6:16).

 

But those passages don't say that without doing irreperable harm to the passage. It is easy to arrive at a wrong conclusion such as that without fully reckoning with the principle of God's promise. Hebrews 8 does not have to say anythign of the kind, and in fact, does not say anything of the kind apart from the presuppositions that one brings to the passage. This is certainly not an easy topie, but neither is it too difficult to understand adequately.

 

Obviously, your last statement is not true ... I have been teh one showing you truth but you have not yet accepted it. Trust me ... one day you will accept it. But in reality, this is a debate between brothers. I cannot for the life of me understand how you guys can reconcile your position with Scripture. I have read many of the books that support your position, but there are just ooo many holes. I have read many of your sides critiques of dispensationalism and I find myself alternaiting between laughing and getting upset at straw men. I usually end up having to put it down for a time so as not to get too bent out of shape.

 

Obviously, your last statement is not true ... I have been teh one showing you truth but you have not yet accepted it. Trust me ... one day you will accept it. But in reality, this is a debate between brothers. I cannot for the life of me understand how you guys can reconcile your position with Scripture. I have read many of the books that support your position, but there are just ooo many holes. I have read many of your sides critiques of dispensationalism and I find myself alternaiting between laughing and getting upset at straw men. I usually end up having to put it down for a time so as not to get too bent out of shape. </font>[/QUOTE]Pastor
I am sorry but I fail to see where he has made an untruthful statement.
I have not been here very long to see what all you have debated with one another about but maybe DP has shown you truths that you cannot accept.
every coin has two sides to it.

 

AA,

I was speaking tongue in cheek. Yes, I do believe that I have the truth and DPT does not. BUt of course, he believes the same thing. I was pointing out that his comment to be patient with us and keep showing us the truth is not helpful to the conversation at this point.