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Who are the parties of the New Covenant?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by rjprince, Dec 14, 2004.

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Who are the parties of the New Covenant?

  1. The New Covenant is between the Nation of Israel (incl. Judah) and God. The Church participates in

    14 vote(s)
    87.5%

  2. The New Covenant is between God and the Church, the church being the new Israel

    2 vote(s)
    12.5%

  3. There are 2 New Covenants, one for Israel, and one for the Church

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Larry, what harm am I doing to 2 Cor. 3, where Paul said he was a minister of the New Covenant?

    Was Paul crazy, or do you confine the New Covenant to only Israel, when Christ and the Apostles expanded it to those saved post-cross.
     
    #41 Daniel David, Dec 26, 2004
  2. trailblazer

    trailblazer New Member

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    #42 trailblazer, Dec 28, 2004
  3. rjprince

    rjprince Active Member

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    DeafPT,

    Did you go to Highland Park? When? HPBC used to have a pretty strong deaf ministry, when I was there (75-81).

    rjprince
     
    #43 rjprince, Dec 29, 2004
  4. rjprince

    rjprince Active Member

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    PL,

    Rom 9-11 also gives very clearly the distinction between Israel and the church.

    Re the content of faith, I say it like this,

    The object of faith has always been God. The basis of faith has always been the shedding of blood, but the content of faith has varied throughout OT history leading up to the cross.

    I have been out of touch and very busy for a while, thanks for taking the baton!
     
    #44 rjprince, Dec 29, 2004
  5. rjprince

    rjprince Active Member

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    DD,

    Who did Paul always preach the gospel to first upon entering a new area? The JEWS. Your passage in no way indicates that the New Covenant is between God and the church! While Jer and Heb clearly say that it is between God and the house of Israel and the house of Judah. How can you read that as "church"?

    Also, what is the textual basis for your allegation that Paul and the Apostles "expanded" the New Covenant to include anyone but the house of Israel and the house of Judah as PARTIES of the covenant.

    I do not argue against the idea that the church participates in the blessing of the NC. I argue that the church has not become a party of the NC. Believers today certainly recieve some blessing as a result of the Abrahamic Covenant but that does not make us parties to the Abrahamic Covenant.
     
    #45 rjprince, Dec 29, 2004
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    The contrast of 2 Cor 3 is between the ministry of death and the ministry of life, or between law and grace. It is not referring to the New Covenant of Jeremiah. The text makes that clear. You would not see that unless you brought that to the text, and even bringing it to the text makes it hard to fit in there. It is just foreign to the passage.

    Or how about you just misapplied the passage?? That makes the most sense. God did not change his promise. The promise is still good, and it is good to the people to whom it was promised. The church certainly participates in the benefits of the new covenant to be sure.
     
    #46 Pastor Larry, Dec 29, 2004
  7. rjprince

    rjprince Active Member

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    PLarry,

    1Cor 3:6 is plainly a reference to the New Covenant. kainh diathhkh is "New Covenant". Since the phrase is a very specific term and only appears 6 times in the NT how can you suggest that Paul is not making reference to Jer 31?
     
    #47 rjprince, Dec 29, 2004
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