Featured Who are those ALL God has Mercy On ?

The sheep are those who hear and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. The number of sheep is limited only in the sense that God has foreknowledge of who they all are. This does not make the atonement limited for the atonement is sufficient enough for the sins of the whole world.

 

Amen! As is Total depravity, Unconditional election, Irresistible grace. I don't really have a problem with saying Perseverance of the saints seeing how one is a new creature with a new heart joined as one with Christ once saved.

 

Only in the mind of God's foreknowledge. One has to exist first!

 

Who is speaking? Jesus Christ. Of course He knows all the sheep that will ever be. Not all sheep existed yet, but God in His foreknowledge can indeed call them all (past present and future) His sheep. Even though they all have not yet been born and born-again. Jesus knows all His sheep that will ever be, so in that sense, yes, they are sheep before they receive Jesus Christ.

 

Even a person headed for destruction, 2 Peter 2:1, has been bought with the blood of Christ. He died for those saved or would be saved and those unsaved and would remain unsaved, as in 2 Peter 2:1.

So it seems someone is attempting to deny that bringing swift destruction upon themselves does not mean they were "headed for destruction." Or perhaps denying that the Master who bought them was Christ. Or perhaps denying Christ made the purchase with His blood.

No matter what, it is an effort to nullify yet another scripture that teaches limited atonement as defined by Calvinism is mistaken.

SBM denies that the false teachers were bought with the blood of Christ. No alternate coin of the realm has been presented.

So by the numbers,
1) Christ bought the false teachers with a price.
2) 2 Peter 2:1 does not say what the price was.
3) Christ gave His life as a ransom for all.
4) Thus Christ bought the false teachers with His life, or figuratively, with His blood.

It is a lock folks.

 

The grace was given or granted them when the individuals were placed in Christ and not before. And as John 17:20-21 demonstrates future believers are not yet in Christ, so the Calvinist view is untenable.

 

Personal incredulity is the last refuge of scripture deniers.

Even a person headed for destruction, 2 Peter 2:1, has been bought with the blood of Christ. He died for those saved or would be saved and those unsaved and would remain unsaved, as in 2 Peter 2:1.

So it seems someone is attempting to deny that bringing swift destruction upon themselves does not mean they were "headed for destruction." Or perhaps denying that the Master who bought them was Christ. Or perhaps denying Christ made the purchase with His blood.

No matter what, it is an effort to nullify yet another scripture that teaches limited atonement as defined by Calvinism is mistaken.

SBM denies that the false teachers were bought with the blood of Christ. No alternate coin of the realm has been presented.

So by the numbers,
1) Christ bought the false teachers with a price.
2) 2 Peter 2:1 does not say what the price was.
3) Christ gave His life as a ransom for all.
4) Thus Christ bought the false teachers with His life, or figuratively, with His blood.

It is a lock folks.

 

If 2 Pet 2:1 is not talking about the blood of Christ, then what is it talking about?

 

Oh dear! I thought we'd put this to bed.
Van, are you quite sure that Despotes refers to Christ?
Are you quite sure that agorazo means to purchase with blood?
Are you quite sure that your interpretation does not contradict other, clearer portions of the word of God?

To resolve this is going to take some more detailed analysis that I've given so far. I'll try to come back later
.

 

Martin - the point is SBM being able to answer these questions.

 

I'm aware that it seems to be open season on poor old Savedbymercy. Perhaps there is a reason for this, but having been away from the forum for some time, I don't know what it is. This is the 'Calvinism vs Arminianism' forum, so it seems reasonable to me for him to raise the points he has and for people to answer him. If he lacks knowledge then others should supply that knowledge without poking fun at him.

What I do know is that Van has commandeered the thread away from the O.P. to 2 Peter 2:1, and is trying to present it as some sort of refutation of Calvinism.

 

The problem, Martin, is that many--both calvinist and otherwise--have discussed his opening posts with him. Archangel, a cavinist, has presented thorough refutations of points SBM has made; only to be told by SBM that Archangel is evading the points. The very fact that SBM refuses to discuss the meaning of 2 Peter 2:1, which would put the matter to rest so that more discussion of the OP could occur, should be a warning signal to you instead of "oh, they're just picking on this guy."

 

Brother Martin,

I agree. Several posters on this forum have treated brother SavedbyMercy in a very unchristian like manner.

Brother Joe

 

I would seem as though sbm is getting picked on unless you have been here the past few months reading his mo.

He refuses to debate any of his own OPs. All who have tried, both Cal and non Cal, only get stone walled with stupid comments like "do you understand my points, rehearse them back to me". So, he hasn't been treated unChristlike at all. But he has been admonished.

Go ahead Martin, try to disagree with anything he posted and see what answer you get.....