Who Caused the Cold War?

[Salty]

In another thread on post # 53 - this post was made "You are not aware of the Eastern Front. Or you would not talk like you do. American leadership called Stalin Uncle Joe back then. They were our ally back then. But we turned on them and started the cold war. That's not God's will. We escaped the damage of WW2 because of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Try and look at why things happen. Look at the evil we have done after WW2. It was not God that caused us to do evil."

So which side really was responsible for the Cold War?
Was the Cold War Part of the "Military Industrial Complex"

Open for discussion.

 

[Ben1445]

In another thread on post # 53 - this post was made "You are not aware of the Eastern Front. Or you would not talk like you do. American leadership called Stalin Uncle Joe back then. They were our ally back then. But we turned on them and started the cold war. That's not God's will. We escaped the damage of WW2 because of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Try and look at why things happen. Look at the evil we have done after WW2. It was not God that caused us to do evil."

So which side really was responsible for the Cold War?
Was the Cold War Part of the "Military Industrial Complex"

Open for discussion.

The MIC should not be excluded from thought. I believe Eisenhower knew what he was talking about.
But as far as being pals with Russia after WWII, there were no grounds for continued friendship with communism. I also think that Reagan handled it very well.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I have said person on "Ignore" and this just validates that it is for good reason. We were never friends with Stalin and pretty much saw him as being the "lesser of two evils" over Hitler. I personally think we should have listened to Patton.

The "Military Industrial Complex" is very much a real thing and Eisenhower's concern was legitimate. I believe this has much to do with our getting into conflicts and never having sufficient resolve to finish what we have started. Hoping Iran would be different but we do not have the intestinal fortitude to do what is necessary to ensure complete victory and unconditional surrender of the current regime. I believe the only thing we will likely accomplish is a swing back to Democratic control of congress and another impeachment proceeding.

 

[Conan]

The MIC should not be excluded from thought. I believe Eisenhower knew what he was talking about.
But as far as being pals with Russia after WWII, there were no grounds for continued friendship with communism. I also think that Reagan handled it very well.

And Ronald Reagan made Nuclear treaties with the Soviet Union so the earth would not be destroyed. Donald Trump let every one expire under his watch. Ronald Reagan was a man of Peace and a great President. In the end he befriended the Russians. Trump and the democrats the exact opposite. Pick one or the other. They were complete opposites. Obama Trump Biden verses Ronald Reagan. The world is far better with Ronald Reagan than your other clowns. Men of war and murder verses a man of peace.

 

[Conan]

I have said person on "Ignore" and this just validates that it is for good reason. We were never friends with Stalin and pretty much saw him as being the "lesser of two evils" over Hitler. I personally think we should have listened to Patton.

The "Military Industrial Complex" is very much a real thing and Eisenhower's concern was legitimate. I believe this has much to do with our getting into conflicts and never having sufficient resolve to finish what we have started. Hoping Iran would be different but we do not have the intestinal fortitude to do what is necessary to ensure complete victory and unconditional surrender of the current regime. I believe the only thing we will likely accomplish is a swing back to Democratic control of congress and another impeachment proceeding.

Another person that does not know real WW2 history. Patton was removed by better men. The Soviet Union destroyed Hitler. Patton did not. There is a real reason Patton could do nothing but wine like a child and get dismissed for his insubordination. Patton did not destroy multi-million man German multi armies. They Soviet Union did put an end to Hitler. Patton did not. Dishonesty with real history is not honesty with God.

 

[Conan]

In another thread on post # 53 - this post was made "You are not aware of the Eastern Front. Or you would not talk like you do. American leadership called Stalin Uncle Joe back then. They were our ally back then. But we turned on them and started the cold war. That's not God's will. We escaped the damage of WW2 because of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Try and look at why things happen. Look at the evil we have done after WW2. It was not God that caused us to do evil."

So which side really was responsible for the Cold War?
Was the Cold War Part of the "Military Industrial Complex"

Open for discussion.

I think you are correct. The military Industrial Complex is responsible for the cold war. Infact I think it is responsible for all wars on the planet. Without the Congressional military Industrial complex there might have been a lot more peace on the earth. Unfortunately those that make their fortunes in war and Colonialism won out. If not for the grace of God there would be no peace at all with those monsters in charge.

 

[Ben1445]

And Ronald Reagan made Nuclear treaties with the Soviet Union so the earth would not be destroyed. Donald Trump let every one expire under his watch. Ronald Reagan was a man of Peace and a great President. In the end he befriended the Russians. Trump and the democrats the exact opposite. Pick one or the other. They were complete opposites. Obama Trump Biden verses Ronald Reagan. The world is far better with Ronald Reagan than your other clowns. Men of war and murder verses a man of peace.

Relax. God is still God.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

"You are not aware of the Eastern Front. Or you would not talk like you do. American leadership called Stalin Uncle Joe back then. They were our ally back then. But we turned on them and started the cold war. That's not God's will. We escaped the damage of WW2 because of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Try and look at why things happen. Look at the evil we have done after WW2. It was not God that caused us to do evil."

Stalin was not a misunderstood ally. He was a temporary wartime partner who immediately broke agreements, occupied Eastern Europe, and launched global communist expansion. The Cold War was not America “turning on” the Soviets, it was a response to Stalin’s aggression. Geography helped us in WWII, but it was American sacrifice and production that won the war. And resisting Stalin was not against God’s will; Scripture never teaches that enabling tyranny is righteous.

Look at the evil we have done after WW2.

Every nation has sins. But if you’re going to look honestly, you also have to look at the good we have done.

Look at the good we have done:

• We kept Western Europe free when Stalin was swallowing nations behind the Iron Curtain.
• We rebuilt Europe and Japan through the Marshall Plan and postwar reconstruction, the largest act of national generosity in known history.
• We have provided more international aid than any nation in human history, year after year.
• We are the world’s first responder in natural disasters, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, famines, arriving with food, medicine, ships, aircraft, and personnel.
• We have defended nations unable to defend themselves, from Korea to Kuwait.
• We have upheld freedom of navigation, keeping global trade routes open for the entire world.
• We have restrained tyrants, not enabled them.

No honest reading of history can pretend America has been a net source of evil since WWII. The record shows the opposite. We have made mistakes, but we have also done extraordinary good, and often at great cost to ourselves.

@Salty I know this was not your statement, but the reply format "Salty said" may suggest that they were.

 

[Conan]

Stalin was not a misunderstood ally. He was a temporary wartime partner who immediately broke agreements, occupied Eastern Europe, and launched global communist expansion. The Cold War was not America “turning on” the Soviets, it was a response to Stalin’s aggression. Geography helped us in WWII, but it was American sacrifice and production that won the war. And resisting Stalin was not against God’s will; Scripture never teaches that enabling tyranny is righteous.



Every nation has sins. But if you’re going to look honestly, you also have to look at the good we have done.

Look at the good we have done:

• We kept Western Europe free when Stalin was swallowing nations behind the Iron Curtain.
• We rebuilt Europe and Japan through the Marshall Plan and postwar reconstruction, the largest act of national generosity in known history.
• We have provided more international aid than any nation in human history, year after year.
• We are the world’s first responder in natural disasters, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, famines, arriving with food, medicine, ships, aircraft, and personnel.
• We have defended nations unable to defend themselves, from Korea to Kuwait.
• We have upheld freedom of navigation, keeping global trade routes open for the entire world.
• We have restrained tyrants, not enabled them.

No honest reading of history can pretend America has been a net source of evil since WWII. The record shows the opposite. We have made mistakes, but we have also done extraordinary good, and often at great cost to ourselves.

@Salty I know this was not your statement, but the reply format "Salty said" may suggest that they were.

When there was a power like the Soviet Union the United States had to appear to play fair. It could not provoke the Soviet Union. We were held in check by them. Once they disbanded we said, we will never let anyone tell us what to do. We will do as we please. We are the only Superpower standing. We are the world’s hegemony. Don’t do as we do, but as we say. The wars with Serbia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan Sudan, the “Arab uprising”, Ukraine and Iran and the upcoming war with China are all consequences Of that godless policy. We are the warmongers.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

When there was a power like the Soviet Union the United States had to appear to play fair. It could not provoke the Soviet Union. We were held in check by them. Once they disbanded we said, we will never let anyone tell us what to do. We will do as we please. We are the only Superpower standing. We are the world’s hegemony. Don’t do as we do, but as we say. The wars with Serbia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan Sudan, the “Arab uprising”, Ukraine and Iran and the upcoming war with China are all consequences Of that godless policy. We are the warmongers.

You’re collapsing unrelated conflicts into one narrative and ignoring the actual causes behind each. The U.S. didn’t become a warmonger after the USSR collapsed, it reduced its military, closed bases, cut spending, and supported democratization. Containment of the Soviet Union wasn’t arrogance; it was a response to an expansionist totalitarian regime. If you want to critique U.S. policy, do it with specifics, not slogans.

 

[Conan]

You’re collapsing unrelated conflicts into one narrative and ignoring the actual causes behind each. The U.S. didn’t become a warmonger after the USSR collapsed, it reduced its military, closed bases, cut spending, and supported democratization. Containment of the Soviet Union wasn’t arrogance; it was a response to an expansionist totalitarian regime. If you want to critique U.S. policy, do it with specifics, not slogans.

How many bases does the USA have around the world? 850? They may have closed some in the USA but they, or rather we have Russia, China and Iran hemmed in. We are the aggressors. When the Soviet Union collapsed, we promised them not one inch forward. Then we broke our words and gobbled up every Eastern European country. American Hegemony.

 

[JPPT1974]

Soviet Union as it was fighting against what the USA stood for. USA stood for democratic capitalism while the Soviet Union disagreed over the political future of Eastern Europe & a divided Germany when it was both East(Communism) & West(Free) aka the Berlin Wall.
Soviet Union refused to leave Eastern Europe that met with US containment and rapid nuclear armament.
One of many reasons the Cold War was caused.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Soviet Union as it was fighting against what the USA stood for. USA stood for democratic capitalism while the Soviet Union disagreed over the political future of Eastern Europe & a divided Germany when it was both East(Communism) & West(Free) aka the Berlin Wall.
Soviet Union refused to leave Eastern Europe that met with US containment and rapid nuclear armament.
One of many reasons the Cold War was caused.

You’re repeating slogans that collapse the moment they meet actual history.

First, the “850 bases” line is activist propaganda, not a strategic map. The overwhelming majority of those sites are:

shared NATO facilities,
logistics hubs,
storage depots,
airlift nodes,
or tiny detachments.

Calling every fenced‑in compound a “base” is how activists inflate numbers to sound ominous. It’s not analysis.

Second, the idea that Russia, China, and Iran are “hemmed in” is geographically ridiculous.
Russia has the largest landmass on earth and direct access to four major seas.
China has full access to the Pacific and the world’s largest navy by hull count.

No one with a map believes these nations are “encircled.”

Third, the “not one inch eastward” claim has been debunked by every serious historian who has examined the declassified record.
There was no treaty, no written agreement, and no binding promise.
The 1990 discussions were about East Germany only, not Eastern Europe.

Even Gorbachev himself said:

“The topic of NATO expansion was not discussed at all.”

Your narrative depends on a promise that never existed.

Fourth, NATO did not “gobble up” Eastern Europe.

Those nations begged for admission because they had lived under Russian domination and wanted protection from it.

NATO expansion requires unanimous approval; the U.S. cannot force it.

Membership is voluntary.

Any nation can leave.

Calling voluntary alliances “hegemony” is rhetoric, not reality.

Fifth, you keep describing American security guarantees as aggression.
For seventy years, Europe has slept under the protection of U.S. taxpayers, U.S. soldiers, and U.S. deterrence.
The bases exist because Europe asked for them, not because America imposed them.

If the U.S. withdrew tomorrow, Europe wouldn’t celebrate “freedom.” They would panic.

Finally, your argument reduces complex geopolitical history to a single emotional slogan:

“America bad.”

It’s not analysis.
It’s not history.
It’s not policy.
It’s resentment dressed up as insight.

If you want to critique U.S. foreign policy, do it with facts, not recycled talking points.

 

[Conan]

You’re repeating slogans that collapse the moment they meet actual history.

First, the “850 bases” line is activist propaganda, not a strategic map. The overwhelming majority of those sites are:

shared NATO facilities,
logistics hubs,
storage depots,
airlift nodes,
or tiny detachments.

Calling every fenced‑in compound a “base” is how activists inflate numbers to sound ominous. It’s not analysis.

Second, the idea that Russia, China, and Iran are “hemmed in” is geographically ridiculous.
Russia has the largest landmass on earth and direct access to four major seas.
China has full access to the Pacific and the world’s largest navy by hull count.

No one with a map believes these nations are “encircled.”

Third, the “not one inch eastward” claim has been debunked by every serious historian who has examined the declassified record.
There was no treaty, no written agreement, and no binding promise.
The 1990 discussions were about East Germany only, not Eastern Europe.

Even Gorbachev himself said:

“The topic of NATO expansion was not discussed at all.”

Your narrative depends on a promise that never existed.

Fourth, NATO did not “gobble up” Eastern Europe.

Those nations begged for admission because they had lived under Russian domination and wanted protection from it.

NATO expansion requires unanimous approval; the U.S. cannot force it.

Membership is voluntary.

Any nation can leave.

Calling voluntary alliances “hegemony” is rhetoric, not reality.

Fifth, you keep describing American security guarantees as aggression.
For seventy years, Europe has slept under the protection of U.S. taxpayers, U.S. soldiers, and U.S. deterrence.
The bases exist because Europe asked for them, not because America imposed them.

If the U.S. withdrew tomorrow, Europe wouldn’t celebrate “freedom.” They would panic.

Finally, your argument reduces complex geopolitical history to a single emotional slogan:

“America bad.”

It’s not analysis.
It’s not history.
It’s not policy.
It’s resentment dressed up as insight.

If you want to critique U.S. foreign policy, do it with facts, not recycled talking points.

You are misinformed and you should know better. Gorbachev was promised " not one inch forward. Jeffrey Sachs knew it and tells the story all of the time. . You were right though about it not in a contract, that's how America could under the Democrat bill Clinton lie about it and say" you got that in righting? The United States lied about it. That should alone tell you about the evil we are up to. Our word is no good. Our government gives false witness and lies and is deceitful. You should be mature enough to know this.

 

[Conan]

You’re repeating slogans that collapse the moment they meet actual history.

First, the “850 bases” line is activist propaganda, not a strategic map. The overwhelming majority of those sites are:

shared NATO facilities,
logistics hubs,
storage depots,
airlift nodes,
or tiny detachments.

Calling every fenced‑in compound a “base” is how activists inflate numbers to sound ominous. It’s not analysis.

Second, the idea that Russia, China, and Iran are “hemmed in” is geographically ridiculous.
Russia has the largest landmass on earth and direct access to four major seas.
China has full access to the Pacific and the world’s largest navy by hull count.

No one with a map believes these nations are “encircled.”

Third, the “not one inch eastward” claim has been debunked by every serious historian who has examined the declassified record.
There was no treaty, no written agreement, and no binding promise.
The 1990 discussions were about East Germany only, not Eastern Europe.

Even Gorbachev himself said:

“The topic of NATO expansion was not discussed at all.”

Your narrative depends on a promise that never existed.

Fourth, NATO did not “gobble up” Eastern Europe.

Those nations begged for admission because they had lived under Russian domination and wanted protection from it.

NATO expansion requires unanimous approval; the U.S. cannot force it.

Membership is voluntary.

Any nation can leave.

Calling voluntary alliances “hegemony” is rhetoric, not reality.

Fifth, you keep describing American security guarantees as aggression.
For seventy years, Europe has slept under the protection of U.S. taxpayers, U.S. soldiers, and U.S. deterrence.
The bases exist because Europe asked for them, not because America imposed them.

If the U.S. withdrew tomorrow, Europe wouldn’t celebrate “freedom.” They would panic.

Finally, your argument reduces complex geopolitical history to a single emotional slogan:

“America bad.”

It’s not analysis.
It’s not history.
It’s not policy.
It’s resentment dressed up as insight.

If you want to critique U.S. foreign policy, do it with facts, not recycled talking points.

23 minutes in.

 

[Conan]

 

[Salty]

Conan -
You may have mentioned this before - I'm not sure - BUT did you serve in the military ? If so - which branch & what was your MOS/ASC/Rating?
Did you spend any of your time in EUCOM or PACOM?
Not saying you have to be military to give comments- but it does give you a different perspective.

In my case, in my many years - I actually served on the East German border! I saw the E Germany GI's with their auto weapons.

Way too many people died attempting to escape communism!
There were more - but the ones listed are confirmed!

 

[Ben1445]

You are misinformed and you should know better. Gorbachev was promised " not one inch forward. Jeffrey Sachs knew it and tells the story all of the time. . You were right though about it not in a contract, that's how America could under the Democrat bill Clinton lie about it and say" you got that in righting? The United States lied about it. That should alone tell you about the evil we are up to. Our word is no good. Our government gives false witness and lies and is deceitful. You should be mature enough to know this.

You say this like it is the only reason. It seems like you found one excuse and latched onto any reason you can find to complain about the US.
May I recommend Aesop’s “The fox and the Grapes?”

 

[Conan]

Conan -
You may have mentioned this before - I'm not sure - BUT did you serve in the military ? If so - which branch & what was your MOS/ASC/Rating?
Did you spend any of your time in EUCOM or PACOM?
Not saying you have to be military to give comments- but it does give you a different perspective.

In my case, in my many years - I actually served on the East German border! I saw the E Germany GI's with their auto weapons.

Way too many people died attempting to escape communism!
There were more - but the ones listed are confirmed!

No I have never been in the military. In Gulf War one I almost volunteered but I thought I would join but nothing would happen and I would just be stuck in the military as a private for 4 years. Man was I wrong. Other people that volunteered got a few weeks of basic training and were sent to the front we needed people so badly.

But I listen to Col. That have seved and seen combat who are well informed and know our real motives. They loved the military and made it their career but they know real motives of the US that our medias lie about. They have seen combat and don't want to see Americans fighting stupid wars that we should never be in. Listen to Trump before he got elected this last time. He was going to get us out of Iraq Afghanistan Libya Ukraine. Now look at him. Murdering Venezuela fishermen and Iranian school girls. For what oil? And oil for what billionaires. These things are not worth killing for. To use our resources to make billionaires and corporations richer than they are. Venezuela and Irans oil belongs to those countries, not US Corporations.

Is it right that under the Salt 2 treaties with Russia that we and they must keep our Strategic Bombers out in the open so they can be seen by satellites at all times then we help Ukraine bomb Russian Strategic Bombers. Ukraine does not have its own satellites so we give them the targets deep inside Russia we guide the missiles and drones. Is that right? Ukraine is our proxy we use to fight Russia with. American soldiers mean well. Our politicians work for the billionaires who do not mean well and are willing to gamble with regular peoples lives and kill them everyday.

 

[Conan]

Conan -
You may have mentioned this before - I'm not sure - BUT did you serve in the military ? If so - which branch & what was your MOS/ASC/Rating?
Did you spend any of your time in EUCOM or PACOM?
Not saying you have to be military to give comments- but it does give you a different perspective.

In my case, in my many years - I actually served on the East German border! I saw the E Germany GI's with their auto weapons.

Way too many people died attempting to escape communism!
There were more - but the ones listed are confirmed!

Well I just gave a long response and it was erased somehow. I will give a short response this time.
No I have never served in the military. I almost volunteered for Gulf War One but I thought I would just be stuck in the military and nothing would happen. Man was I so wrong others that volunteered got just some basic training and were sent to the front right away. But later in life I have friends that Clinton made get out of the military so I could not have made it a career anyway , as I did not consider myself smarter than they. I will keep this brief incase it gets deleted.

Oh I do listen to retired Military Col's who served and fought and share everything they know about what real reasons wars are for and what our government is really up to. I like to hear the truth they share that FOX, CNN, ABC, BBC will never do.