Who Decides?

[Van]

So are you denying the genuine saved actually know God and know they are saved?

You are denying what I said, and addressing what I did not say or suggest.

Here it is again, verbatim.

People can think they are saved, yet the Lord will say I never knew you. The issue is not whether a saved person has been sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit, the issue is a person can believe that he or she has been indwelt, even a lost person.
Professing believers are to examine ourselves at communion to see if we are "of the faith." That is where we obtain our "blessed assurance, Jesus is mine."​

 

[Van]

God decides who He will saved. What is the key to obtaining access to His possible grace? Faith in Christ. We must believe in Christ and in the One who sent Him and that God raised Him from the grave. We must love God with full devotion, with steadfast love that puts Christ above all our fleshly desires or worldly treasures.

 

[37818]

You are denying what I said, and addressing what I did not say or suggest.

Here it is again, verbatim.

People can think they are saved, yet the Lord will say I never knew you. The issue is not whether a saved person has been sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit, the issue is a person can believe that he or she has been indwelt, even a lost person.
Professing believers are to examine ourselves at communion to see if we are "of the faith." That is where we obtain our "blessed assuran ce, Jesus is mine."​

What are we disagreeing on? I do not think you actually know what we are disagreeing on.

 

[37818]

Romans 1:16, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."

1 Corinthians 15:1-4, ". . . the gospel . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . "

1 John 5:1, ". . . Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

 

[Dr. Bob]

So are you denying the genuine saved actually know God and know they are saved?

Careful not to put words in his mouth. The question is the "genuinely saved" - remember our deceitful hearts, the seeds that did NOT produce genuine salvation even though it "appeared" to? God knows who are His.

I've known many who I would have voted 100% they were truly saved, only to see them years later and they are reprobate, denying by word and life all they once "claimed".

 

[37818]

Careful not to put words in his mouth. The question is the "genuinely saved" - remember our deceitful hearts, the seeds that did NOT produce genuine salvation even though it "appeared" to? God knows who are His.

I've known many who I would have voted 100% they were truly saved, only to see them years later and they are reprobate, denying by word and life all they once "claimed".

It was an intented question, not an accusation. I hold we who are saved know so, without a doubt. And knowing God as a genuine result, we actually knowing God (John 17:3, John 14:6 and Romans 8:9.) Please feel free to check the Scriptures I had cited. Thank you your concern.

 

[37818]

I've known many who I would have voted 100% they were truly saved, only to see them years later and they are reprobate, denying by word and life all they once "claimed".

Former professing Christians is a study.
Luke 8:13, They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

 

[canadyjd]

Since it is God who decides whether to credit our flawed efforts as being righteous

Who decides whether to justify a person? God does!

Please provide scripture to support your claim God would ever consider “our flawed efforts to be righteous”?

Our most righteous deeds are “filthy rags” and “dung” in God’s eyes, according to scripture.

We are clothed in the righteousness of Jesus. God sees HIS righteousness and applies His righteousness to us.

Focusing more on God and what He does, instead of man and what he does, would go a long way in improving your understanding of scripture

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

God decides who He will saved. What is the key to obtaining access to His possible grace? Faith in Christ. We must believe in Christ and in the One who sent Him and that God raised Him from the grave. We must love God with full devotion, with steadfast love that puts Christ above all our fleshly desires or worldly treasures.

That sounds very much like a performances based salvation that merits God’s grace by saying we MUST “love…full devotion…puts Christ above…fleshly desires…worldly treasures”

You are claiming that to obtain “access” to God’s grace, we MUST do certain things.

I believe you are confused.

All the things you mentioned are things we do in RESPONSE to God’s grace pored out upon us first.

peace to you

 

[Charlie24]

Former professing Christians is a study.
Luke 8:13, They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

That's a good point, we can plainly see that these in Luke 8:12 were never saved. "Lest they should believe and be saved."

But what about those in Luke 18:13? Does not Christ say that "which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away?"

Someone will surly say they were never saved, but that's not what Christ said! He plainly said they believed and fell away.

This is a direct refute of unconditional eternal security!

 

[Van]

What are we disagreeing on? I do not think you actually know what we are disagreeing on.

I make no claim of mind reading, you are the one hiding your point.

 

[Van]

Please provide scripture to support your claim God would ever consider “our flawed efforts to be righteous”?

Our most righteous deeds are “filthy rags” and “dung” in God’s eyes, according to scripture.

We are clothed in the righteousness of Jesus. God sees HIS righteousness and applies His righteousness to us.

Focusing more on God and what He does, instead of man and what he does, would go a long way in improving your understanding of scripture

peace to you

I have provided citation after citation but you claim I have not. No need to discuss.
God decides whether to credit a person's filthy rag faith as righteousness or not.

 

[Van]

That sounds very much like a performances based salvation that merits God’s grace by saying we MUST “love…full devotion…puts Christ above…fleshly desires…worldly treasures”

You are claiming that to obtain “access” to God’s grace, we MUST do certain things.

I believe you are confused.

All the things you mentioned are things we do in RESPONSE to God’s grace pored out upon us first.

peace to you

This sounds like manufactured false charges to change the subject and hide your false doctrine.
Folks, just read Romans 5:1-2.

 

[37818]

That's a good point, we can plainly see that these in Luke 8:12 were never saved. "Lest they should believe and be saved."

But what about those in Luke 18:13? Does not Christ say that "which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away?"

Someone will surly say they were never saved, but that's not what Christ said! He plainly said they believed and fell away.

This is a direct refute of unconditional eternal security!

God who saves, keeps whom He saves.
John 10:28, . . . I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, . . .

There is not any passages anywhere where a stated saved became lost.

 

[Charlie24]

God who saves, keeps whom He saves.
John 10:28, . . . I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, . . .

There is not any passages anywhere where a stated saved became lost.

Ok, that's fine. I'll not argue.

 

[37818]

I make no claim of mind reading, you are the one hiding your point.

I made no such accusation of mind reading.
It is not my fault you do not understand the point of Scripture I quote.

 

[Van]

I made no such accusation of mind reading.
It is not my fault you do not understand the point of Scripture I quote.

Yes it is! Christ requires we speak boldly plainly and clearly.

I say God decides whom He will save, whose faith He will credit as righteousness.

See post 21 and behold the false charge.

 

[37818]

@Van's first question is about a Law of God.

Say God commands the lost to love God with all their heart, mind and spirit. Who decides whether a lost person meets that command?

My response,

That commond is Law.
Mark 12:29-30, And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Galatians 2:21, I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I later cited,

Romans 3:19-20, Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:21, I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Van]

Stonewalling, non denial denials, and obfuscation are the stock and trade of those who fail to follow God's command to speak boldly, plainly and clearly, with our yes meaning yes and our no meaning no.

Some claim in our fallen state, we cannot be perfect. That is true. However, once we have been born anew, we are perfect, having been made perfect by the washing of regeneration.

Thus if God credits our faith as righteousness, He will transfer us into Christ, cause us to be born anew, and seal us in Christ with the Holy Spirit forever.

Can God choose to credit our faith if we did our best to love God with all our heart, mind and spirit? Yes.
Can God choose to credit our faith if we did our best to do unto others as we would have them do unto us? Yes
Did Peter love Jesus with a self sacrificial love (Agapao) which is the kind of love commanded in Matthew 22:37? Nope, Did Jesus accept Peter's best effort in John 21:15-17? Yes!!

God decides, not people!

The Gospel of Christ

 

[37818]

See post 21 and behold the false charge.

?
Post #21,

You are denying what I said, and addressing what I did not say or suggest.

Here it is again, verbatim.

People can think they are saved, yet the Lord will say I never knew you. The issue is not whether a saved person has been sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit, the issue is a person can believe that he or she has been indwelt, even a lost person.
Professing believers are to examine ourselves at communion to see if we are "of the faith." That is where we obtain our "blessed assurance, Jesus is mine."​