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Who has the authority to Baptise?

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Authority to baptize is found in Matthew 28:18-20. If this text is very carefully considered according to proper exegesis, immediate and overall context, then authority is being delivered by Christ into the hands of those who are contextually defined as "disciples."

I think I can demonstrate to any objective mind based on proper exegesis, immediate and overall context that "disciples" in this text does not refer to two entities considered in this context, one of which are unbaptized, untaught and unassembled professing disciples or those contextually identified as "them" in Matthew 28:19-20. The other entity of course are those who do not profess to be Christians or the nations unto which they are being sent.

Many imagine that only the eleven considered as "apostles" are being authorized, although Matthew does not use the term "apostles" in verse 16 but "disciples." Many imagine that there are no other disciples present in the immediate context at this mount in Galilee, but the preceding text provides convincing evidence of the very opposite.

However, more importantly, proper exegesis provides many keys to the proper identity of those being authorized to administer baptism. First, they are those who "have" already been evangelized, baptized and assembled under Christ and taught all things. In direct contrast, those identified as "them" in the context are the subjects for baptism and assembling to be instructed rather than administers of such things. The blind cannot lead the blind, the untaught cannot teach what they have not been taught - those being authorized by Christ to administer baptism are not the unevangelized, or the unbaptized or the baptized and untaught but those who have been through this threefold process.

This brings me to the three participles that modify the primary verb which literally translated means "make disciples." Make disciples is the aim in view. But not any kind of disciples. The three participles define what kind of disciple is to be made. It is not a "disciple" who preaches another kind of gospel as those whom are the subjects of the book of Galatians (Gal.1:8-9). It is not a "disciple" who administers another kind of baptism but the only that justifies God and is according to his counsel (Lk. 7:29-30). It is not a "disciple" who teaches contrary to the "apostles doctrine" (Acts 2:41) as those who "depart from the faith" are heretical and condemned in Scripture (1 Tim. 4:1).

Ultimately, he is referring to disciples who have not merely been baptized but assembled not merely for instruction but for proper observation of that body of faith delivered by Christ. Indeed, the New Testament church is inseparable from the third participle as Luke demonstrates in Acts 2:40-41.

So, Judas properly administered baptism because baptism is not given to the individual believer, but the body of believers called the assembly. Therefore, the administrator does not act on his own initiative or authority but under the authority of the body. Baptismal administration finds it authority in a properly constituted body of professing baptized believers.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
I live in Britain; and there are quite enough unbelievers to be dealing with here I assure you.

Well maybe if you spent more time doing that you might not be so judgmental concerning a brother whom you have never met and about whom you know nothing.

My judgment is that he needs to head to the border and start signing in non-citizens of The United States as Citizens of the United States, by using the same type of self-proclaimed 'authority' as he insists on playing church with.

Please, don't name me as an 'authority' on the traditions of man being superior to God's Revelation to mankind, just because it could cause someone to feel sorry for themselves.

Does he give a darn, one way or another about what he's asking?

Does he?

What's your judgment on that?

Am I wasting my time with someone simply reasoning with their carnal mind, which mind of the flesh is the sin-cursed enemy of God, and they are more interested in asking God's children to pay the price of giving up the Authority to Understand the Authority of what Jesus Called, "My church", by The Authority of God's Word than in having any desire to Spiritually Discern her?

That is too high a price.

He asked, accused, made unilateral decisions in opposition to God, based on misinterpretation and misunderstanding.

Where's God in all this?
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Well we read that the Lord Jesus Himself baptized no one, but left it to His disciples (John 4:2) who included Judas Iscariot.
I am not suggesting for one moment that any church should allow unregenerate people to perform baptisms, but tell me:

Do you find anywhere in Scripture that those disciples baptized by Judas were somehow less holy than those baptized by the others?

'Holiness' is relevant to Salvation.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
'Holiness' is relevant to Salvation.
Amen! But maybe you should concern yourself with the first part of Hebrews 12:14 as well as the second, and start acting like a Christian in your conversations with others. You can start by addressing me in the Second Person.

Water baptism brings no one into the kingdom of God any more than my naturalizing Honduran migrants would make them U.S. citizens. Baptism didn't make Simon Magus into a Christian (Acts 8:13, 21) regardless of who baptized him. It is the Triune God who makes Christians.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Authority to baptize is found in Matthew 28:18-20. If this text is very carefully considered according to proper exegesis, immediate and overall context, then authority is being delivered by Christ into the hands of those who are contextually defined as "disciples."

I think I can demonstrate to any objective mind based on proper exegesis, immediate and overall context that "disciples" in this text does not refer to two entities considered in this context, one of which are unbaptized, untaught and unassembled professing disciples or those contextually identified as "them" in Matthew 28:19-20. The other entity of course are those who do not profess to be Christians or the nations unto which they are being sent.

When Jesus Commissioned His Divinely Instituted church gathering of His eleven disciples who had been "builded together' out of the Material prepared by John's Baptism, they were an Official, Constituted, Scripturally Baptised, Organization, ASSEMBLED IN CORPORATE "ONE of JESUS' CHURCHES" CAPACITY, to whom AS A CONSTITUTED CHURCH of JESUS ORGANIZATION, The Son of God Promised HER, "I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen".

Jesus Promised HER that He would BE WITH HER.

And He Has Been.

Those 'disciples' died.

'They' had been Given The Authority of God in The Great Commission that our Bible puts as 'All Power' that was Given to Jesus.

'They' were her.

She has The Authority.

Otherwise, the Commission and Authority died with the 'disciples' and Jesus is a liar to Say He would be with 'you' to the end of the age.

'You' is 'her'.

If someone wants to say they are going to Stand before Jesus and tell Him differently, then I would like to recommend unto them, The Bible, first; before they go there.

"Yeah, they died and I had to take it up again and Jesus was just saying 'me', when He said, 'I am with you'."

But that is not what it could have meant to the 'disciples' Jesus was Saying the Words to. Simply that they were 'disciples' and someone else could come along and be a 'disciple' and have 'All Authority Given" unto Him, IN TURN, GIVEN TO THEM AS AN INDIVIDUAL to GO, MAKE DISCIPLES, BAPTISE, TEACH?

That is wishful 'thinking', if we want to remember that that 'thinking' and 'reasoning' done apart from The Holy Spirit and Scripture, is done with a sin-cursed mind of the flesh, that is resulting in a denial of churches Founded by Jesus.

It also can't be made to fit into the Passage.

"All Power is Given unto Me"/ "Go"/ and "I Will Be with You unto the end of the Age" fits that Jesus Knew Exactly who was Talking to and Why.

Like a hand in a glove.

In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus is Speaking to His Divinely Instituted JESUS Organization, assembled in Corporate, Divinely Instituted JESUS Organization (church; called out assembly) capacity.

Jesus Appointed her there.
Jesus Commissioned her there.
Jesus Promised her Perpetuity there.

And Jesus Has Kept His Promise.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Amen! But maybe you should concern yourself with the first part of Hebrews 12:14 as well as the second, and start acting like a Christian in your conversations with others. You can start by addressing me in the Second Person.

Water baptism brings no one into the kingdom of God any more than my naturalizing Honduran migrants would make them U.S. citizens. Baptism didn't make Simon Magus into a Christian (Acts 8:13, 21) regardless of who baptized him. It is the Triune God who makes Christians.

If I had a way to keep people from feeling sorry for themselves, I would.

I don't know of any evidence for your first paragraph and I don't believe any exists.

It's cool how that analogy of signing non-citizens over into be Citizens of The United States is not within our authority, isn't it?

Same with using the blank pages at the back of our Bible to write in a bunch of fantasies, as if that's why 'God Put them there', i.e., to exercise our 'authority'.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If I had a way to keep people from feeling sorry for themselves, I would.

I don't know of any evidence for your first paragraph and I don't believe any exists.

It's cool how that analogy of signing non-citizens over into be Citizens of The United States is not within our authority, isn't it?

Same with using the blank pages at the back of our Bible to write in a bunch of fantasies, as if that's why 'God Put them there', i.e., to exercise our 'authority'.
The true Church of jesus is the Body of Christ, his bride, and there shall be more than just Baptists in it, correct?
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
None of these wordings are of Biblical Origin, in the way that you are using them. Entire books have been written to explain why. If you are going to ask a question, learn one to ask with wording that is Relevant to Reality.

It took Satan 1,500 years to get humans to begin adopting these various false concepts, into their reasoning, concerning the Word of God, in the way that you are using them.

In the way that you are using them, they are each, simply, of Satanic Origin.

"The true Church"

"The true Church of jesus"

"The...Church of jesus"

"The ... Church"

"the Body"

"the Body of Christ"

"the Body of Christ, his bride"

"his bride, more than just Baptists"

"his bride"

"more than just Baptists"

just Baptists in it"

"it"
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
Reformed said:
"Actually, the Great Commission was given, specifically, to the eleven remaining disciples:"

37818 says, "This is context...":

"lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Do you hold to the context? and reconcile it?

What do you think needs to be reconciled?
Sorry, I'm just seeing this:

What needs to be reconciled is "the Great Commission was given, specifically, to the eleven remaining disciples", because all of the Apostles/Disciples had died and gone on to be with The Lord, which in that specific case would have left no one on Earth with any Authority to carry out any of what is entailed in The Great Commision, including the Authority from God to baptise believers into the membership of a local church.

Because, we also have Jesus saying to the Apostles/Disciples, as they are assembled with Him, "lo, I Am with you always, even to the End of the Age.”

So, Jesus couldn't have been speaking to the Apostles/Disciples as individuals when He Promised them He would be with them until "the End of the Age", either, since they were all dead and gone not too many years after Jesus spoke those words.

Then, using the Bible definition of what Jesus meant when He used the word "church"*, when He talked about
"My church" that He said He was going to "build", or edify, etc., we are able to reconcile the difficulty easily.

Jesus Planned to continue to
"build"/edify HIS DIVINELY ORIGINATED, FOUNDED, AND ORGANIZED LOCAL, CALLED-OUT, SELF-GOVERNING ASSEMBLY, which was made up of those Apostles/Disciples at that time He had them assembled, was acting as their Head, of course.

Jesus' first church was made up and
"built" out of the "material" John the Baptist had prepared, since John had baptized those Apostles/Disciples by the Authority of God, Who Sent John to baptize.

Just as the Bible tells us, "And God hath set some in the church, first Apostles...", in I Corinthians 12:28. That is the verse after the Bible tells us what Paul was talking about, also, when he uses the word 'body' in I Corinthians 12:27; "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular" (at Corinth)**.

That's easy enough to figure out from the other things he says there about a 'body' in I Corinthians 12:12; "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body", 12:14; "For the body is not one member, but many", 12:18; "But now hath God Set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath Pleased Him", 12:20; "But now are they many members, yet but one body", (at Corinth)**, 12:23-26; "And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24; "For our comely parts have no need: but God hath Tempered the body (at Corinth)** together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25; "That there should be no schism in the body (there at Corinth)**; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26; "And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it (in that local assembly, of course, at Corinth)**."

So, when Paul uses the word 'body' in I Corinthians, he talking about the entity he defined for sure in I Corinthians 12:27; "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular", although its usage in all those other verses makes it obvious that 'a body' God is talking about there the local assembly of baptized believers there at Corinth, who Paul was addressing to start with, as we read in I Corinthians 1:1,2; "Paul, called to be an Apostle of Jesus Christ through the Will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2; "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth..."

Without a doubt, "the church of God which is at Corinth..." is "the body of Christ, and members in particular", at Corinth, specifically when comparing all of the other verses cited above.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
That is why God gave us the New Testament Scriptures.
Jesus' first church was an Organized Ruling body of Scripturally baptized believers, the Apostles/Disciples, made up of the Apostles/Disciples there in Jerusalem that John the Baptist had baptized, by the Authority of God.

This was, of course, before the Day of Pentecost, at which time there were souls ADDED TO HIS CHURCH THERE AT JERUSALEM THAT ALREADY EXISTED, as seen in Acts 2:47; "And the Lord added to the church (at Jerusalem)** daily such as should be saved."

Therefore, to reconcile "the Great Commission was given, specifically, to the eleven remaining disciples", for it to be said that there is remaining any Authority to carry out any of what is entailed in The Great Commision, including the Authority from God to baptise believers into the membership of a local church, has to be seen that those 11 Apostles/Disciples had been gathered together by Jesus and that JESUS WAS SPEAKING TO THEM IN CORPORATE CAPACITY, BEING HIS FIRST LOCAL CHURCH ASSEMBLY THAT HE HAD ORGANIZED AND FOUNDED, AND IT WAS HER, HIS CHURCH, AS A SPECIFIC BODY OF QUALIFIED SCRIPTURALLY BAPTIZED INDIVIDUALS CONVENED TO CONDUCT THE BUSINESS OF GOD THAT JESUS GAVE HIS GREAT COMMISSION TO AND PROMISED TO BE WITH UNTIL HE COMES AGAIN, AS HE TOLD the Apostles/Disciples, as they are assembled with Him, "lo, I Am with you always, even to the End of the Age.”

Jesus Promised to be with His church assemblies as organized local, independent, ruling bodies and the history of believers who descended from Jesus' first church He "built" at Jerusalem can be seen throughout the remainder of the New Testament and in the historical testimony of all those organized assemblies of baptized believers which are described in the book of Revelation when it says, "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a Place Prepared of God...", in Revelation 12:6, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER ASSOCIATED WITH THE GREAT WHORE, OR HER HARLOT DAUGHTERS, OTHER THAN WHEN THEY WERE HUNTED DOWN, TORTURED, AND MARTYRED BY THE TENS OF MILLIONS, ALL THROUGHOUT THE CHURCH AGE.

And I hope no one will dare say, that they can prove where Jesus' local church assemblies, which He Promised He would be with until the End of the Age, have ever entirely died out, which would make Jesus a liar.

But, Jesus baptized His church assembly there on the Day of Pentecost with the Holy Spirit Who has the Commission Himself to Dwell with Jesus' local church assemblies organized as ruling bodies with the Authority of God to carry out the Great Commission, as a "Habitation of God through the Spirit", as we see where Paul told the Ephesians assembled at Ephesus, "In Whom (Jesus, the Cheif Cornerstone; you remeber He said "on this Rock I Build My church" Matthew 16:18 and "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ" I Corinthians 3:11) "ye also are builded together for an Habitation of God through the Spirit."

Ephesians 2:19-22 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the Household of God; 20; "And are Built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Corner Stone; 21; "In whom all the building fitly framed together Groweth unto an Holy Temple in the Lord: 22; "In whom ye also are Builded together for an Habitation of God through the Spirit."

If you are ever looking for the Authority of God to carry out the Great Commission, including the Authority of God to baptise, that is where you need to look. The Church that Jesus Built.

In fact, God's Command that you be baptized is to you and for you to be Scripturally baptized by the Authority of God vested in one of His local church assemblies, which has THE AUTHORITY OF GOD TO BAPTISE.

*(and not something, genuinely crazy, that men came up with long after the Bible was written, as to what 'they think it might mean', which would happen to be the exact opposite of what Jesus was talking to His Disciples about).

** I decided to go ahead and add these explanatory notes, and have every confidence they will stand the Test of Time, at The Judgment, etc.
 
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