Who is Bob Jones

The name of one of the websites is nobojo. I have yet to be able to get into it BTW. The subtext for it says it is a look into the wacky world of BJ by a former student.

... and you feel you're in a position to condemn someone else for hatred?

Didn't you read the links?

No. You are wrong. There is such a thing as being zealous for the objective truth. I know it is just my personal experience but I have never met a liberal that believed in absolute moral standards. All of them have been moral relativists. In other words, they are willing to lie, distort the truth, exaggerate, or use the truth out of context to achieve their ends. Their unfailing support of Bill Clinton comes to mind. No matter that he committed a felony... he was doing a good job so leave him alone, they said.

Because by and large, fundamentalists and conservatives accept the notion of absolute moral standards. This does not prevent us from being in error but it does greatly reduce the chance that one will knowingly and deliberately plan to deceive someone.

I can honestly say that I have never heard either of them speak. I have never read a book written by either. I have read a few quotes from Bob Jones (I,II,III).

Its your objectivity that is of immediate question.

I disagree with their previous positions on race. I was satisfied by both their action in dissolving the policy and BJIII's apology. If you cannot forgive someone for being wrong then it is your own beam that you should be concerned with.

I have read statements and heard speakers with ties to BJU on the topic of RCC. All have expressed love for Catholics but resolute disagreement with their beliefs. I personally agree that the RCC teaches a false doctrine beginning with the most important one to man, sotierology yet I work daily with Catholics and love them.

It is either dishonest or ignorant to infer that Augustine held the beliefs of the modern day RCC.

That's fine. But it does not make your charges true nor fair.

One of you condemned BJ, Sr. for being somehow connected with the KKK. But in the era when this collaboration possibly took place, it was incumbent on virtually anyone who wanted to do anything religious or political in the south to have peace with the Klan. They basically controlled the Democratic party in the south also.

Based on the number of BJU grads that have dedicated their lives to foreign missions... some giving their lives in the process. One family that comes to mind have devoted their lives to evangelizing Brazil... not exactly WASP's, those Brazillians.

Depends on how you say someone comes to Christ. By the means described in the Bible or by the means set forth by the RCC. How do you believe someone is saved?

The quote I saw said 'antichrist'which means "instead of Christ." It refers to an individual or institution that assumes the position of Christ. The RCC calls the Pope, Christ's Vicar. They obviously think this is God's design. I agree with BJ that it is not.

OK, in what way do these "newspapers" support the objective of building the kingdom of God, evangelizing the lost, equipping the saints, etc.

As I stated before, many BJU grads go into ministries that reach out to lost people of all races. I know several of them personally.

So what your saying is that the RCC does not teach that there is salvation in the sacraments and that people must pay for their own sins? Your saying that they do not teach that Mary is a co-Redemptrix? That icons should be honored and bowed to? That "Saints" make intercession for us? That the Pope speaks for God when he speaks ex cathedra?

[ October 26, 2002, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Scott J ]

 

yeah I mean I only cite the supreme court of the united states - please, just admit that you were wrong...otherwise kindly explain to me why the supreme court revoked BJU's tax exempt status and why their degrees are not accredited by anyone at all.

you are confused - that is my link not Mikes and the site does seem to be down at the moment - which is a real pity it was a mine of valuable information and links.

Soo before the year 2000 you would have condemed BJU as a racist institution?

That was me - but it doesn't just apply to BJ Sr - they all have been and are racists. BJ snr was not 'somehow' connected with the KKK - he took money from them - this has been documented in a peer reviewed book that is recognised as one of the leading texts in the field (it is required reading for a number of university courses) - so either you provided evidence against this claim or you call this man a liar - which is it to be?

evidence? source for this claim?

do you concede that BJU was a racist institution? and that BJ is a racist? that is father and grandfather were racists?

[ October 26, 2002, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: InHim2002 ]

 

Does anyone know how many Nobel prizes in Mathematics, Science and Economics have been awwarded to Blacks? Just curious.

[ October 27, 2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Ps104_33 ]

 

Every other school was wrong, as I said in my post. And the "long before" was a matter of several years. As for civil disobedience and what you believe, it is a documented fact from Jones Sr and Jr that that was the case. I can only assume you are uninformed on that matter.

Who is the young man who was expelled in 2000? I would be interested to know his name. I can probably find out whether or not you have told the whole story here. I am quite sure that it is likely you have not. But I will be glad to check into it for you.

 

Thank you.

Agreed.

Agreed. I would add that they're not critical at all of the people BJU chooses to align themselves with.

I agree.

We have a family member came out of BJU (in an almost zombie-like state, BTW) and found her "degree" virtually useless because the school is unacredited.

Mike

 

So is your calling me a "hateful person" but taht didn't stop you.

When was the last time you had something good to say about Catholics? About gays?

At least I acknowledged that something good must have come out of BJU.

I've been in enough discussions about various controversial issues that I would think it would be more than evident that I allow people the lattitude to have differing opinions.

 

Not to condemn them, as they would condemn, say, a Catholic or gay person, but to condemn their actions? Yes and I think every Christian should.

What links?

The problem is that, while the "truth", itself, may remain objective, the zealot may not be objective in how he applies it.

I would think those of us in fundamentalist circles would be more than familiar with this problem.

The key words here are "by and large".

And yet, you speak as though you have.

Yes, and Yasser Arafat has declared his love for Jews, too. So what?

What have their actions been?

That was a tongue in cheek remark. I'm well aware of Augustine's beliefs, thank you.

That wasn't a "charge" of any kind. I was merely stating my opinion.

There's a difference between "making peace with" and being in bed with.

Isn't it interesting that BJU stood up to the federal government because they believed they were standing up for God's principles, yet you say here that they wouldn't stand up to the Klan on the same grounds?

I didn't say anything about the individual students who attended BJU.

No, I mean in the way that they laid the groundwork for my becoming saved later on.

I was taught by them that it was Christ alone who died for the remission of sins and was later raised and that, if I would confess with my lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised Him from the dead, I would be saved. (that's Romans 10:9, Curtis)

They're newspapers. It's not their job to do those things.

Are you implying that it's somehow wrong for Christians to read newspapers?

Good for them.

As I stated before, I'm not talking about individual students, but the policies of the school and the actions of it's leadership.

I said no such thing.

I've only stated my experiences with the Catholic church and my gratitude to them for laying the groundwork that would eventually lead to my becoming a Christian.

[ October 28, 2002, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

I think we are getting a little off track from the original question, Who is Bob Jones?

The identity question has been answered, then some have branched off into Catholicism and other avenues. Either the thread should get back on track or close.

Cheers,

Jim
moderator

 

It was probably before I got saved.

Mike, if you don't like what I say about the Catholic church, then, as I see it, you have 2 choices.

1) Don't read them.

2) Get your Bible out, and come down into that forum, and show me where I have made my doctrinal errors.

As far as BJsr, I didn't know him, so I can't say he was prejudiced or not. But I do know of one prejudiced preacher, who hated anyone who wasn't Jewish, and actually wanted to die before he saw his enemies saved. But when it came time to preach, he preached the gospel. He didn't change it, he didn't water it down. How do I know ? The bible tells me about him. His name was Jonah.

At least he preaches the Gospel. Was he a bigot ? It hasn't been proven here.

 

'Nuff said.

Actually, I purposely try to steer away from "Catholic" threads because I've seen the kind of stuff that goes on there and I don't see any reason to drag myself down with that kind of negativity.

You've described him as "hating anyone who wasn't Jewish" so I guess by definition, yes, he was.

 

I tried to stay away from the negativity to, Mike. But, as a moderator, I would not be able to sleep after reading some of the stuff put up as fact, by the RCC supporters, and that isn't right. I decided to expose it, and it sometimes ain't pretty. I get a lot of help from my friends down there. Somebodies got to tell the truth, Mike. Can we count on you to help, or are you going to cause division here by undermining our efforts ? The invitation is open, take your Bible and come down there, and point out where we are wrong.

And isn't it great, that despite Jonah's human faults, because of the message he preached the entire city of Ninevah was spared God's wrath ?

 

As little as I've said about it, if that little bit is going to "undermine your efforts", then it doesn't sound like had much of a case to begin with.

I've been quite honest about the things that the Catholic church teaches that I agree disagree with.

In spite of that, I feel that God would rather I simply say, "I disagree" and leave it at that and I have to do what he says before taking any dares to get into some deep theological discussion about things which I probably agreed with you about anyway, but you never cared to ask.

 

OK, then do us a favor, please. Stop referring to what goes on down there in a negative light. If you disagree with something one of us says, bring it to us, don't talk about it up here. It's like gossip. It tears apart ministries, causes strife. If you don't like the way I say something, tell it to me, don't bring it up in some thread where I may not see it.

Are you reading what is happening down there ? I am learning an awful lot. I can honestly say that the Holy Spirit is working in the hearts of people there. Some don't like it. My own mother hits her rosary beads every day hoping I come back to the RCC. Things I have said to her bring her to tears, and she has come close to ripping her sweater doing the sign of the cross.

I asked my music director (BJU grad) about BJsr. He smiled and said that whatever was said about him was probably true. But despite his flaws, he tried to stay true to the Bible. And that will NEVER make any friends.

 

You mean the way you ripped me here without coming to me?

I wasn't aware that I said anything at all about you, other than a complimentary comment in the music section.

Yes.

I can imagine.

Sorry, but people have used the Bible to justify all sorts of terrible things throughout history.

Doesn't make them right.

 

ie that he was a racist.

I suppose that is as close to admitting this as you are going to get?

 

Did I EVER say he wasn't ? I just asked for people to back up their hateful posts. And IMHO, it hasn't been done.

So, I'll have to go on the word of the graduates from his school, and I haven't met one yet who wasn't a completely wonderful witness.

Now here, on the ole'BB, that's a different story.

See, we back up our posts about Billy Graham with his own words. This hasn't been done, with BJsr. Only heresay, and third person testimonies have been offered. Nothing that can be directly traced to his mouth. And the hateful attitude of his critics, and their total unwillingness to come up with anything concrete, speaks volumes.

All I can say is, Praise God for BJU. It has turned out a lot of Godly men & women.

Where di you go to school, In Him 2000 ?

 

what, specifically, hasn;t been proven?

to university you mean? I went to the university of York and did my degree in pol sci.

why do you ask?

[ October 30, 2002, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: InHim2002 ]

 

No one ever documented the "Negro is best when he serves at the table" quote. The link that was provided was broken. I would be curious to see the published source for that quote.

 

No one ever documented the "Negro is best when he serves at the table" quote. The link that was provided was broken. I would be curious to see the published source for that quote.

 

The source for that quote is the Nation from an article written in 1965 - the site I linked to appears to be offline but http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:4z54XyTJzrQC:www.nobojo.com/minorities.html+%22Negro+is+best+when+he+serves+at+the+table%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 is a cached version

That is a site run by a former student by the way.

BJU is the only educational institution in the USA that has to pay taxes - why? because the supreme court ruled that it is a racist institution.

[ October 30, 2002, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: InHim2002 ]