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Who is Melchizedek?
- Thread starter Eliyahu
- Start date
There are many sites which view Melchizedek either as a type of man or as Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ. Even among the learned true believers, there are some who disagree that Melchizedek was Preincarnate Jesus Christ, but some of them changed the mind when they heard about the points which I raised already.
Here is one of the excerpts from the site:
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/melchizedek.html
HOW DOES MELCHIZEDEK FORE-VIEW JESUS CHRIST ?
Six times in the Bible God says Jesus Christ is of the order of Melchizedek (Ps. 110:4; Heb. 5:6, 10; 6:20; 7:17, 21). It is obvious, then, that the chief purpose for Melchizedek in the Bible is to teach us about Christ.
Melchizedek fore-views Christ in HIS NAMES . He was king of righteousness and king of peace. There can be no real peace without righteousness (Is. 48:22; 57:21) and the reason there is no peace between God and man since the days of Adam is because of man’s sin. In the Lord Jesus Christ, righteousness and peace have met. He makes peace between God and man because He paid man’s sin debt by his blood and death (Rom. 5:1).
Melchizedek foreviews Christ in HIS CITY . Melchizedek reigned in Salem (Gen. 14:18). This later became Jeru-salem, and will be the city in which Christ will establish His kingdom (Ps. 76:2; Zech. 8:3-8).
Melchizedek foreviews Christ in HIS OFFICES : Melchizedek was a king (Gen. 14:18), a priest (Gen. 14:18), and a prophet (Gen. 14:19). The Lord Jesus Christ also is king (1 Tim. 6:14-15), priest (Heb. 7-10), and prophet (Deut. 18:15; Ac. 3:22).
Melchizedek foreviewed Christ in HIS AUTHORITY . This is the first mention of tithing in the Bible, and it was long before God gave the Law of Moses. Tithing has always been God’s plan for the support of His earthly work. God’s people today tithe of their income to support God’s great program of world evangelism. Tithing honors God as the Giver and Possessor of all (Prov. 3:9-10).
Melchizedek fore views Christ in HIS WORK : He ministered to God’s people (Gen. 14:18; Mt. 20:28). He blessed God’s people (Gen. 14:19; Lk. 24:51). He glorified God (Gen. 14:20; Jn. 17:4).
Melchizedek foreviews Christ in HIS PROVISION . Melchizedek provided bread and wine for Abraham (Gen. 14:18). This fore views Christ’s provision of His body and blood for the needs of His people (Mt. 26:26-28).
Melchizedek foreviews Christ in HIS MYSTERY . There is a mysterious aspect to Melchizedek, because the Bible says he had no beginning of days nor end of life (Heb. 7:3) and there are many questions about him to which we do not have the answers. Likewise, Jesus Christ is the great Mystery Person, mysterious in His birth, His life, His resurrection, and His ascension; fully God and fully man; the God of David and the son of David; both the root and the branch of Jesse; visible and knowable and yet dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen; born in a lowly manger and yet the eternal Son of God, “whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting” (Micah 5:2
The most important difference is that :
View of Preincarnate Jesus Christ believes Bible as it is, while the view of a human beinng in a type similar to Jesus Christ denies that Melchizedek had no end of life, no father, no mother, no beginning of days, eternal priesthood . which is mentioned in Heb 7:2-3
Here is one of the excerpts from the site:
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/melchizedek.html
HOW DOES MELCHIZEDEK FORE-VIEW JESUS CHRIST ?
Six times in the Bible God says Jesus Christ is of the order of Melchizedek (Ps. 110:4; Heb. 5:6, 10; 6:20; 7:17, 21). It is obvious, then, that the chief purpose for Melchizedek in the Bible is to teach us about Christ.
Melchizedek fore-views Christ in HIS NAMES . He was king of righteousness and king of peace. There can be no real peace without righteousness (Is. 48:22; 57:21) and the reason there is no peace between God and man since the days of Adam is because of man’s sin. In the Lord Jesus Christ, righteousness and peace have met. He makes peace between God and man because He paid man’s sin debt by his blood and death (Rom. 5:1).
Melchizedek foreviews Christ in HIS CITY . Melchizedek reigned in Salem (Gen. 14:18). This later became Jeru-salem, and will be the city in which Christ will establish His kingdom (Ps. 76:2; Zech. 8:3-8).
Melchizedek foreviews Christ in HIS OFFICES : Melchizedek was a king (Gen. 14:18), a priest (Gen. 14:18), and a prophet (Gen. 14:19). The Lord Jesus Christ also is king (1 Tim. 6:14-15), priest (Heb. 7-10), and prophet (Deut. 18:15; Ac. 3:22).
Melchizedek foreviewed Christ in HIS AUTHORITY . This is the first mention of tithing in the Bible, and it was long before God gave the Law of Moses. Tithing has always been God’s plan for the support of His earthly work. God’s people today tithe of their income to support God’s great program of world evangelism. Tithing honors God as the Giver and Possessor of all (Prov. 3:9-10).
Melchizedek fore views Christ in HIS WORK : He ministered to God’s people (Gen. 14:18; Mt. 20:28). He blessed God’s people (Gen. 14:19; Lk. 24:51). He glorified God (Gen. 14:20; Jn. 17:4).
Melchizedek foreviews Christ in HIS PROVISION . Melchizedek provided bread and wine for Abraham (Gen. 14:18). This fore views Christ’s provision of His body and blood for the needs of His people (Mt. 26:26-28).
Melchizedek foreviews Christ in HIS MYSTERY . There is a mysterious aspect to Melchizedek, because the Bible says he had no beginning of days nor end of life (Heb. 7:3) and there are many questions about him to which we do not have the answers. Likewise, Jesus Christ is the great Mystery Person, mysterious in His birth, His life, His resurrection, and His ascension; fully God and fully man; the God of David and the son of David; both the root and the branch of Jesse; visible and knowable and yet dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen; born in a lowly manger and yet the eternal Son of God, “whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting” (Micah 5:2
The most important difference is that :
View of Preincarnate Jesus Christ believes Bible as it is, while the view of a human beinng in a type similar to Jesus Christ denies that Melchizedek had no end of life, no father, no mother, no beginning of days, eternal priesthood . which is mentioned in Heb 7:2-3
Melchisedec was a "type" of Christ. He wasnt Christ Himself.
This is the Seventh Day Adventist view of this subject...
It was Christ that spoke through Melchisedec, the priest of the most high God. Melchisedec was not Christ, but he was the voice of God in the world, the representative of the Father.
3 (Mark 14:53; Luke 22:54; John 18:13). A Corrupted Priesthood.-- The priesthood had become so corrupt that the priests had no scruples in engaging in the most dishonest and criminal acts to accomplish their designs. Those who assumed the office of high priest prior to, and at, the time of Christ's first advent, were not men divinely appointed to the sacred work. They had eagerly aspired to the office through love of power and show. They desired a position where they could have authority, and practice fraud under a garb of piety, and thereby escape detection. The high priest held a position of power and importance. He was not only counselor and mediator, but judge; and there was no appeal from his decision. The priests were held in restraint by the authority of the Romans, and were not allowed the power of legally putting anyone to death. This power rested with those who bore rule over the Jews. Men of corrupt hearts sought the distinguished office of high priest, and frequently obtained it by bribery and assassination. The high priest, clad in his consecrated and expensive robes, with the breastplate upon his breast, the light flashing upon the precious stones inlaid in the breastplate, presented a most imposing appearance, and struck the conscientious, true-hearted people with admiration, reverence, and awe. The high priest was designed in an especial manner to represent Christ, who was to become a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (RH Dec. 17, 1872). {5BC 1100.8}
17 (Gen. 14:18-20; Ps. 110:4). A High Priest After the Order of Melchisedec.--The high priest was designed in an especial manner to represent Christ, who was to become a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. This order of priesthood was not to pass to another, or be superseded by another (Redemption: The First Advent of Christ, p. 14). {7BC 930.12}
..that is from the writings of the Spirit of Prophecy.
This is the Seventh Day Adventist view of this subject...
It was Christ that spoke through Melchisedec, the priest of the most high God. Melchisedec was not Christ, but he was the voice of God in the world, the representative of the Father.
3 (Mark 14:53; Luke 22:54; John 18:13). A Corrupted Priesthood.-- The priesthood had become so corrupt that the priests had no scruples in engaging in the most dishonest and criminal acts to accomplish their designs. Those who assumed the office of high priest prior to, and at, the time of Christ's first advent, were not men divinely appointed to the sacred work. They had eagerly aspired to the office through love of power and show. They desired a position where they could have authority, and practice fraud under a garb of piety, and thereby escape detection. The high priest held a position of power and importance. He was not only counselor and mediator, but judge; and there was no appeal from his decision. The priests were held in restraint by the authority of the Romans, and were not allowed the power of legally putting anyone to death. This power rested with those who bore rule over the Jews. Men of corrupt hearts sought the distinguished office of high priest, and frequently obtained it by bribery and assassination. The high priest, clad in his consecrated and expensive robes, with the breastplate upon his breast, the light flashing upon the precious stones inlaid in the breastplate, presented a most imposing appearance, and struck the conscientious, true-hearted people with admiration, reverence, and awe. The high priest was designed in an especial manner to represent Christ, who was to become a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (RH Dec. 17, 1872). {5BC 1100.8}
17 (Gen. 14:18-20; Ps. 110:4). A High Priest After the Order of Melchisedec.--The high priest was designed in an especial manner to represent Christ, who was to become a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. This order of priesthood was not to pass to another, or be superseded by another (Redemption: The First Advent of Christ, p. 14). {7BC 930.12}
..that is from the writings of the Spirit of Prophecy.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Heb 7 never says "Melchizedek still liveth" but what a great text if it DID say that!!
I wonder if Melchizedek "Still liveth" while Christ was in the tomb. Does the Bible say Christ "died and rose again"??
The reason that Melchizedek is stated to have no recorded "end of days" is that he has nothing recorded about his death. This makes him a "type" of Christ - it does not make him God the Son incarnate BEFORE His FIRST coming!!
ALL OT prophesies look FORWARD to the coming of the Christ NONE declare that "HE ALREADY" came. NONE call the birth Christ his "Coming AGAIN" as they do with the 2nd coming references to His return.
the point is obvious.
I wonder if Melchizedek "Still liveth" while Christ was in the tomb. Does the Bible say Christ "died and rose again"??
The reason that Melchizedek is stated to have no recorded "end of days" is that he has nothing recorded about his death. This makes him a "type" of Christ - it does not make him God the Son incarnate BEFORE His FIRST coming!!
ALL OT prophesies look FORWARD to the coming of the Christ NONE declare that "HE ALREADY" came. NONE call the birth Christ his "Coming AGAIN" as they do with the 2nd coming references to His return.
the point is obvious.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
In the Gospels Christ says that "John IS Elijah" as His way of saying that John IS NOT actually Elijah but came in the spirit and power of Elijah.
Surely an equally if not MORE explicit reference was available in Heb 7 if the intent was to say "CHRIST IS Melchizedek". Obviously it does not go even as far as the reference between Elijah and John.
When the blind man responds to the question "who healed you" and "who is the Son of man" he does not know the person by sight - Christ then says "I AM HE" - he does not say "I resemble him".
NOTHING like that is stated in Heb 7 between Christ and Melchizedek.
They are not the same person -
Christ IS the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world - but that lamb/goat caught while Abraham was at the altar with his son to slay him - WAS NOT in fact God the Son at some pre-incarnate moment!
Lets be serious.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
But if we look at this extreme view of Melchizedek we see obvious points telling us this is in no way God the Son.
#1. When Christ comes to the first time - He is born of a virgin as predicted and saves the World from sin as predicted. All mankind - history itself is changed and Christianity is born.
But when Melchizedek comes - it is into obscurity and to rule over a small little town of Salem - a small king a small town that does not ever actually do anything but take a tithe offering from Abraham and offer a prayer of blessing. A more insignificant "mission" for God the Son could hardly be imagined!!
#2. Moses - who "speaks with God face to face" according to Numbers 6 - fails to give Melchizedek anything more than "passing mention" as an insignificant figure.
This would be like Matthew saying "we were having dinner in the upper room and a man by the name of Jesus stopped by at the door to wish us Bon apetite!" as the entire Gospel account of Christ!!
In Christ,
Bob
#1. When Christ comes to the first time - He is born of a virgin as predicted and saves the World from sin as predicted. All mankind - history itself is changed and Christianity is born.
But when Melchizedek comes - it is into obscurity and to rule over a small little town of Salem - a small king a small town that does not ever actually do anything but take a tithe offering from Abraham and offer a prayer of blessing. A more insignificant "mission" for God the Son could hardly be imagined!!
#2. Moses - who "speaks with God face to face" according to Numbers 6 - fails to give Melchizedek anything more than "passing mention" as an insignificant figure.
This would be like Matthew saying "we were having dinner in the upper room and a man by the name of Jesus stopped by at the door to wish us Bon apetite!" as the entire Gospel account of Christ!!
In Christ,
Bob
Bob,
Thanks for your serious post since I have enjoyed your posts all the time.
Comparing to Elijah and John is not appropriate to this case, because both are mortal while we are talking about Immortal Pre-Incanate JC and Post-Incarnate JC.
If you read Greek text Heb 7:8 zh (ze)means Present Active Third Singular Personnel. "He lives" compared to the Leviticus priests who died, died, died...
If you believe that Melchizedek died, then you disbelieve the statements of the Bible saying :
having no end of life, but made like unto the Son of God, abideth a priest continually.
1)How do you interpret continually? considering no end of life?
2) Do you believe Salem was a small town in Canaan? considering Ps 76:1-2?
As for Salem, there are 2 verses to consider:
Gen 33:18 ( a village in Shechem)and John 3:23 where John was baptizing. But you must consider that there can be a heavenly place like Siloh.
3)Pre-Incarnate JC became Post-Incarnate JC, which is the succession of Priesthood,IMO.
4) Do you believe that Holy Spirit didn't know about the End of Life of Melchizedek? I hope you don't
5) Does Holy Spirit hide the end of life and then make such comparison between Melchizedek and Son of God?
6) Do you believe that Son of God, Immortal and Righteous, Sinless and Everlasting, succeeded to the Mortal, Sinful,Feable man priest? If that's the case, why didn't he succeed to Leviticus?
7) Who can you imagine was superior to Abraham at the time of Gen 14,since he defeated all the enemies, even after intereceding for Pharaoh?
Thanks again for your points but please think about these points.
Thanks for your serious post since I have enjoyed your posts all the time.
Comparing to Elijah and John is not appropriate to this case, because both are mortal while we are talking about Immortal Pre-Incanate JC and Post-Incarnate JC.
If you read Greek text Heb 7:8 zh (ze)means Present Active Third Singular Personnel. "He lives" compared to the Leviticus priests who died, died, died...
If you believe that Melchizedek died, then you disbelieve the statements of the Bible saying :
having no end of life, but made like unto the Son of God, abideth a priest continually.
1)How do you interpret continually? considering no end of life?
2) Do you believe Salem was a small town in Canaan? considering Ps 76:1-2?
As for Salem, there are 2 verses to consider:
Gen 33:18 ( a village in Shechem)and John 3:23 where John was baptizing. But you must consider that there can be a heavenly place like Siloh.
3)Pre-Incarnate JC became Post-Incarnate JC, which is the succession of Priesthood,IMO.
4) Do you believe that Holy Spirit didn't know about the End of Life of Melchizedek? I hope you don't
5) Does Holy Spirit hide the end of life and then make such comparison between Melchizedek and Son of God?
6) Do you believe that Son of God, Immortal and Righteous, Sinless and Everlasting, succeeded to the Mortal, Sinful,Feable man priest? If that's the case, why didn't he succeed to Leviticus?
7) Who can you imagine was superior to Abraham at the time of Gen 14,since he defeated all the enemies, even after intereceding for Pharaoh?
Thanks again for your points but please think about these points.
Some more arguments that I would add are:
1) Abraham himself was a priest offering sacrifice at the altar when we read Gen 12:7, 13:4, 13:18. Did he require any human priest more among the gentiles?
2) To God's eyes, we can hardly imagine, there was any other person superior to Abraham at that tiem when he defeated 7 Kings in the first Middle East War. Did Abraham, the chosen person, pay tithe to any pagan kings?
3) Jesus Christ has become the eternal Priest after the Order of Melchizedek.
Is Jesus, the Immortal Deity, a follower of a mortal, sinful, corruptable human being? If so, why didn't Jesus follow Leviticus priests, the chosen priests?
1) Abraham himself was a priest offering sacrifice at the altar when we read Gen 12:7, 13:4, 13:18. Did he require any human priest more among the gentiles?
2) To God's eyes, we can hardly imagine, there was any other person superior to Abraham at that tiem when he defeated 7 Kings in the first Middle East War. Did Abraham, the chosen person, pay tithe to any pagan kings?
3) Jesus Christ has become the eternal Priest after the Order of Melchizedek.
Is Jesus, the Immortal Deity, a follower of a mortal, sinful, corruptable human being? If so, why didn't Jesus follow Leviticus priests, the chosen priests?
No, but that doesn't stop him from doing so should he desire.
As the text points out Melchizedek was not a pagan king as he is named priest of the most high, so your argument here is pointless.
Because that is how God intended it. That is all you need to know. Again this is a pointless question as it does absolutely nothing to bolster your argument.
Besides if you are going to be convincing you need to come up with a better answer to "represents" than your normal habit of ignoring the basic definition of the word. Second, being of the "order" does not mean he is a follower of a person. It only means as Hebrews explains, that His priesthood was based on an oath rather than on lineage.
If anyone believes this Bible as it is without twisting or distorting it, she or he can find whether Melchizedek is a mortal human being or Jesus Christ before Incarnation,
Heb 7:1-3
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually .
Heb 7:1-3
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually .
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
"IS MADE LIKE" does not say "IS" and yet we find of John the baptizer "he IS Elijah" who was to come!!
The NT does NOT teach reincarnation brethren!
When God the Son came to earth - it was born of a virgin and sent to save the world from sin.
The idea that he came to be king for a few years over the tiny city of Salem so that he could pick up a tithe offering from Abraham one day - is totally bogus.
ALL OT authors point FORWARD to the coming of God the Son to earth -- NONE point backward.
ALL NT authors point to CHRIST as the Messiah - NEVER to Melchizedek.
The only thing we find is that in that story - the description of him has attributes so align him with the role of Christ IN HEAVEN!
"For IF HE where on earth He would NOT be a priest AT ALL" Heb 8:4
The NT does NOT teach reincarnation brethren!
When God the Son came to earth - it was born of a virgin and sent to save the world from sin.
The idea that he came to be king for a few years over the tiny city of Salem so that he could pick up a tithe offering from Abraham one day - is totally bogus.
ALL OT authors point FORWARD to the coming of God the Son to earth -- NONE point backward.
ALL NT authors point to CHRIST as the Messiah - NEVER to Melchizedek.
The only thing we find is that in that story - the description of him has attributes so align him with the role of Christ IN HEAVEN!
"For IF HE where on earth He would NOT be a priest AT ALL" Heb 8:4
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The argument made in Heb 7 is for the DESTRUCTION of all earthly priesthood!
The argument is that SINCE there is a CHANGE in priesthood (Christ as High Priest in HEAVEN not earth) then there has to be a change in law (regarding the priesthood).
Paul is pointing out that the fact that Christ is our true High Priest - abolishes the system of earthly "levitical" priesthood.
Paul CONTRASTS the Levitical model with the one Christ has IN HEAVEN!
He never claims that Melchizedek officiated in heaven as High Priest while being king in Salem!!
It just isn't there.
In Christ,
Bob
The argument is that SINCE there is a CHANGE in priesthood (Christ as High Priest in HEAVEN not earth) then there has to be a change in law (regarding the priesthood).
Paul is pointing out that the fact that Christ is our true High Priest - abolishes the system of earthly "levitical" priesthood.
Paul CONTRASTS the Levitical model with the one Christ has IN HEAVEN!
He never claims that Melchizedek officiated in heaven as High Priest while being king in Salem!!
It just isn't there.
In Christ,
Bob
Obviously, Eliyahu, by your own standards you either don't believe the Bible or you are twisting and distorting the Scriptures. Again you can't ignore the basic definition of 'represents.' Also the complete context of Hebrews points out that they are alike in that their priesthood is based upon an oath and not a bloodline which is why their priesthood lasts forever.