I got 10 minutes in and couldn't stomach any more lies and misinformation, especially from that idiot from gty. Now answer my question.
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Who is Rick Warren, really?
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quantumfaith
Active Member
I guess we (you and I focus on different things), what "moved" me was his statement that "everything he does is in an effort to introduce people to Christ". That says a "BUNCH" to me.
quantumfaith
Active Member
As was mentioned in one of the Videos......"churches count the offering don't they". There is nothing inherently wrong with keeping data and analyzing what numbers might be saying. SBC for all my formative years certainly did this. Although I agree, a simplistic focus on "raw data" is ill conceived , but data that points to lives that are changed and altered through relationship are meaningful.
quantumfaith
Active Member
:applause::applause::applause:
Shall we sing, give me that old time religion now? It is fair to reject Warren's gospel marketing method, and employ one that works in our circumstance. When I skimmed over some of Pastor Warren's church leader training material, I rejected much of it, but it opened my eyes to new and different and possibly better outreach opportunities and tweaks of our current outreach also came into focus. Bottom line, with the grace of God and a gifted teaching Pastor, we went from a small, less than 100 member church, ingrown and declining, to a healthy church infused with the energy of the Spirit. And a part of that came from considering how to reach those in our community by adorning the gospel with relevance for today. We became something different than what we were so that we might win so. Webdog's story is not uncommon.
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Numbers of lives changed is not a mark of success?
Better tell that to God because He often mentions it in His Word.
Jack Matthews
New Member
There are a couple of problems here. One is the video itself, which is not a credible source, and that's clear within the first few minutes of it. The other is that there appears to be some resentment here of Rick Warren and Saddleback on the part of some who are jealous. And jealousy of someone's ministry is usually the result of focusing on themselves instead of on Jesus.
There are a lot of things I don't like, and don't particularly agree with in the mega church methodology, including Saddleback. I would most likely not attend there myself, for several reasons. But, Warren's preaching and writing is solidly Biblical and, unlike most other megachurches, are reaching into a highly secular population group. Apparently, God is using them to reach people that traditional churches have absolutely no interest in reaching.
The Kingdom of God, made up of the churches of Jesus scattered all over the world, is a lot broader, and a lot less exclusive than some people want it to be. Redemption is the result of grace, not a set of legalities. While we may disagree on secondary or tertiary issues, the pursuit of truth does not have to involve put downs and criticism of anyone else's faith, or approach to ministry.
There are a lot of things I don't like, and don't particularly agree with in the mega church methodology, including Saddleback. I would most likely not attend there myself, for several reasons. But, Warren's preaching and writing is solidly Biblical and, unlike most other megachurches, are reaching into a highly secular population group. Apparently, God is using them to reach people that traditional churches have absolutely no interest in reaching.
The Kingdom of God, made up of the churches of Jesus scattered all over the world, is a lot broader, and a lot less exclusive than some people want it to be. Redemption is the result of grace, not a set of legalities. While we may disagree on secondary or tertiary issues, the pursuit of truth does not have to involve put downs and criticism of anyone else's faith, or approach to ministry.
I'm not sure its jealousy as much as one bad experience in a failed church implementing his model (when Warren warns against doing just that) and then setting out on a lifelong mission of blaming him for it while trying to tear down his ministry at every opportunity as has been told to us on this thread in so many words. Fact is that failed church would have failed using any methodology, the problem starts at the core.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
I remember reading that mess waaaaaaaaaay back when and thinking what is this collection of new age mumbo jumbo? He is a dangerous man especially with this new ecumenical everything blending he's trying to lead.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
"Watered down" is an interesting term. If something is not as arcane as my way, then is it watered down. If my bible is not the KJV, is it watered down. If my music stirs the audience of today, is it watered down?
Is the Saddleback statement of faith, the gospel they preach, watered down? Note the lack of archaic words.
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Matthew 26:26-30; Mark 14:22-26; Luke 22:19,20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-29
This doesn't mean a hill of beans if you start establishing a reputation of joining with that which God says you are to not join with.
Oh? So show me. I guess I'll make sure that I stop donating to the homeless shelter in my area because I noticed the Catholic church also helps them. Our church should also stop supporting our crisis pregnancy center that we started because they now receive funds from the Catholic church and even individuals who are not Christians.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
He is indeed "dangerous". And that label is worthy of anyone who attempts to push the ecumenical mess that he is pushing.
He's FOOLISHLY trying to appeal to Islam when Islam demands his eradication. And they are simply letting him play the game that they are leading.
Can you show me a link?
Zaac
Well-Known Member
YOU as a Christian doing what God calls you to do has NOTHING to do with what non-Christians do.
But as I have said repeatedly, Christians need to stop thinking they are doing God a favor with their sacrifices while disobeying Him.
If He called you to donate to the homeless shelter or support a crisis pregnancy center, that has NOTHING to do with partnering with these anti-Christ religions as Warren keeps pushing.
When you throw your support behind that which is against God or partner with it, no matter what level of good you think you're doing, it's in direct opposition to what God's word says his people are supposed to do.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
A link for what?
For what I quoted you accusing him of.
If you read over this thread you find charges of malfeasance, with little rebuttal to the premise Warren is simply presenting the gospel, adorning the gospel message, differently than we experienced. He tries to reach people of all faiths, rather than spreading a message of hate. We have missionaries in Islamic countries that are risking their lives every day.
Zaac, you need to rethink your stand on outreach. Yes there is a time to shake the dust off, but not before you try to reach folks. And one way to reach folks is to create and build upon common interests.
Zaac, you need to rethink your stand on outreach. Yes there is a time to shake the dust off, but not before you try to reach folks. And one way to reach folks is to create and build upon common interests.
You can't follow a simple conversation here but claim to have proper discernment concerning Warren's motives ? :laugh:
Where's the "like" button when you need it?
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