Who is Rick Warren, really?

[InTheLight]

I agree that Mr. Warren is using the scripture in 1 John out of context. Now how about addressing the fact that Mr. Warren emphatically refutes the allegations made about him and Muslims and also complains that he is misquoted by the media and these misquotes take on a life of their own providing fodder for Christians to erroneously attack him.

 

[Zaac]

I agree that Mr. Warren is using the scripture in 1 John out of context. Now how about addressing the fact that Mr. Warren emphatically refutes the allegations made about him and Muslims and also complains that he is misquoted by the media and these misquotes take on a life of their own providing fodder for Christians to erroneously attack him.

It's again like talking out the side of your neck. You can't say one thing out one side of your mouth while saying and doing something else out the other side of your mouth.

If you're not joined with Muslims and there is no Kings Way document and there is no Saddleback Staff involved as RW says, then why is a pastor on his staff co-leading this Kings Way thing with the Director of religious Affairs for the Islamic Center of Southern California?

Why does RW keep doing things that leave big question marks about what he's "trying" to do and then he gives even more confusing explanations?

 

[Zaac]

If he contextually does what he did with that last Scripture, is it any wonder why he is "attacked" by others? I could see if he were attempting to deal with the principles of the Scripture. But the principles of what he stated STILL only apply to CHRISTIANS as treatment of non-Christians is addressed elsewhere.

 

[InTheLight]

Why does RW keep doing things that leave big question marks about what he's "trying" to do and then he gives even more confusing explanations?

What is confusing about this?

WARREN: Sure. All three of those statements are flat out wrong. Those statements were made by a reporter, not by me. I did not say them . . . I do not believe them . . . I completely disagree with them . . . and no one even talked to me about that article!

 

[Zaac]

What is confusing about this?

WARREN: Sure. All three of those statements are flat out wrong. Those statements were made by a reporter, not by me. I did not say them . . . I do not believe them . . . I completely disagree with them . . . and no one even talked to me about that article!

You wrote it. How about you tell us what's confusing about THIS. I wasn't referencing THIS.

 

[InTheLight]

You wrote it. How about you tell us what's confusing about THIS. I wasn't referencing THIS.

I don't know what you are referring to as being confused. I only know that you are confused.

 

[Zaac]

I don't know what you are referring to as being confused. I only know that you are confused.

Sounds like you're the confused one since you're asking what's confusing about something no one said was confusing.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Nope. If you want me to put that in your profile, just let me know.:thumbs:

You can put it in my profile. I can be just as hypocritical as you can. I'm willing to admit it.

 

[SolaSaint]

I'll admit it is confusing that RW states he doesn't condone interfaith servics and then there is this King's Way PIC? Has Warren addressed this? Also the word "hate" sure is thrown around a lot by Warren?

 

[InTheLight]

I'll admit it is confusing that RW states he doesn't condone interfaith servics and then there is this King's Way PIC?

What do you see in that picture that would indicate what was happening was an interfaith service? Cause I don't see any Muslims in that picture or any trappings of Islam. In fact, it was a dinner held in December 2011 where the King's Way was introduced.

Here is the background and part of the King's Way document:


1. The primary source for this story was a five-page document jointly drafted by Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at the Islamic Center of Southern California, a mosque in Los Angeles. The document was unveiled at a December, 2011 dinner at Saddleback Church attended by approximately 300 Saddleback members and members of Southern California’s Muslim community. At the dinner a Powerpoint presentation described the document, and the King’s Way outreach effort which inspired the document, as “a path to end the 1,400 years of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians.” The document, which was given to me by a source for this story on condition it not be published in its entirety, outlines several areas of theological agreement between Christians and Muslims and commits members of both faiths to three goals: becoming friends; making peace; and sharing “the blessings of God with others.” Here is how the document describes the points of theological agreement:
I. WHO: we believe in
ONE GOD:
1. God is one (Mark 12:29; Muhammed 47:19)
2. God is the Creator (Genesis 1:1; Al Shura 42:11)
3. God is different from the world (1 Timothy 6:16; An An’am 6:103)
4. God is Good
a. God loves (1 John 4:16; Al Buruj 85:14)
b. God is just (1 John 1:19, Romans 3:26; Hud 11:45)
c. God’s love encompasses God’s judgment (1 Peter 4:8; Al A’raf 7:156; Al Ghafir 40:7)

http://standupforthetruth.com/2012/...document-that-sparked-the-chrislam-questions/

It seems to me that this document is a paper that lists some of the common theological tenets of Christianity and Islam in an effort to "become friends; make peace; and sharing the blessings of God with others". It is so broad in its generalization I don't see where it is a vehicle for interfaith services. At least SO FAR I don't. But I can understand why many would have concerns.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think some of the criticism of RW is based on only partial info of things said and events and misjudgments thereof.

 

[SolaSaint]

What do you see in that picture that would indicate what was happening was an interfaith service? Cause I don't see any Muslims in that picture or any trappings of Islam. In fact, it was a dinner held in December 2011 where the King's Way was introduced.

Here is the background and part of the King's Way document:


1. The primary source for this story was a five-page document jointly drafted by Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at the Islamic Center of Southern California, a mosque in Los Angeles. The document was unveiled at a December, 2011 dinner at Saddleback Church attended by approximately 300 Saddleback members and members of Southern California’s Muslim community. At the dinner a Powerpoint presentation described the document, and the King’s Way outreach effort which inspired the document, as “a path to end the 1,400 years of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians.” The document, which was given to me by a source for this story on condition it not be published in its entirety, outlines several areas of theological agreement between Christians and Muslims and commits members of both faiths to three goals: becoming friends; making peace; and sharing “the blessings of God with others.” Here is how the document describes the points of theological agreement:
I. WHO: we believe in
ONE GOD:
1. God is one (Mark 12:29; Muhammed 47:19)
2. God is the Creator (Genesis 1:1; Al Shura 42:11)
3. God is different from the world (1 Timothy 6:16; An An’am 6:103)
4. God is Good
a. God loves (1 John 4:16; Al Buruj 85:14)
b. God is just (1 John 1:19, Romans 3:26; Hud 11:45)
c. God’s love encompasses God’s judgment (1 Peter 4:8; Al A’raf 7:156; Al Ghafir 40:7)

http://standupforthetruth.com/2012/...document-that-sparked-the-chrislam-questions/

It seems to me that this document is a paper that lists some of the common theological tenets of Christianity and Islam in an effort to "become friends; make peace; and sharing the blessings of God with others". It is so broad in its generalization I don't see where it is a vehicle for interfaith services. At least SO FAR I don't. But I can understand why many would have concerns.

That is my concern..taking the bible and the koran and trying to reconcile or examine similarites. Do we see apologists taking the book of Mormon and see how well we have similarites with Mormons?

What is the purpose if this Kings Way gets Muslims to agree there is one god, when do we tell them that the one God is the Christian God? Or do we just over look that little problem and keep fellowshipping with them, I really don't see the truthfulness in this ministry? And if RW says he didn't even know about this King's Way dinner, I find that very hard to believe. Rick Warren knows everything that goes on with Saddleback.

 

[Zaac]

You can put it in my profile. I can be just as hypocritical as you can. I'm willing to admit it.

Consider it done. Mexdeaf wants to be known for his hypocrisy. Got it.:thumbs:

 

[InTheLight]

That is my concern..taking the bible and the koran and trying to reconcile or examine similarites. Do we see apologists taking the book of Mormon and see how well we have similarites with Mormons?

We don't see it with the Mormons because the level of animosity isn't as high as between Christian and Muslims. Extreme Islam is at war with us.

What is the purpose if this Kings Way gets Muslims to agree there is one god, when do we tell them that the one God is the Christian God? Or do we just over look that little problem and keep fellowshipping with them, I really don't see the truthfulness in this ministry?

I'm having a hard time figuring out the purpose behind having these concurrent statements of faith as well.

 

[righteousdude2]

That LINK Puts the Nail in the Coffin, IMHO!

That is my concern..taking the bible and the koran and trying to reconcile or examine similarites. Do we see apologists taking the book of Mormon and see how well we have similarites with Mormons?

What is the purpose if this Kings Way gets Muslims to agree there is one god, when do we tell them that the one God is the Christian God? Or do we just over look that little problem and keep fellowshipping with them, I really don't see the truthfulness in this ministry? And if RW says he didn't even know about this King's Way dinner, I find that very hard to believe. Rick Warren knows everything that goes on with Saddleback.

Thanks Rick for the excellent link. It sure looks as though RW is trying to bring the two together, which in my way of thinking is an Unequally yoked union, your OP is right on, as are your concerns. Any rotten apples tossed your way from naysayers are just blind to the truth that you have presented.

We know, that in the latter days, a multitude of of those calling themselves Christians, will in fact fall from Grace.

I know some will say that the above statement is judging RW and his followers, but, again, as in the initial post I made when you opened this topic, I am not judging RW. I am merely pointing out that there will be many in the church who will be deceived and fall away. It's comparable to the seperating of the wheat from the tares.

If others think I'm including RW in this statement, so be it. I am merely pointing out a prphetic fact. If RW falls in that catagorey, so be it.

You can not marry the Christian faith with Islam, as they are two seprate things. We must remember that Islam is the remenent fabric of the of the selling of the birthright by Jacob to Esau. Islam can be loosely traced back to that split between the twin brothers.

And in regard to the Old Testament, Islam states that while the Bible is held to reflect true unfolding revelation from God; it [any revelations given in the OT] is also but revelation which has been corrupted or distorted (in Arabic: tahrif); which necessitated the giving of the Qur'an to the Islamic prophet, Muhammad, to correct this deviation.

You stated your case, as did others, and it is probably time to move on down the raod, shaking the sand from our sandals. :thumbs:

For further info on Islam and the OT, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Christian_Bible

http://www.ldolphin.org/islam.shtml

Finally, this is a must read: http://www.faithfacts.org/world-religions-and-theology/christianity-vs.-islam

 

[DHK]

30 pages is a long discussion.
Please continue on another thread if you so desire.