Who is saying what? What is true about it?

[37818]

Who is saying what?
Mark wrote it? Not at issue.
What was written is God's word. Not at issue.
What it says is actually true. Not at issue.
What is at issue.
That the date of the event is at issue.
Mark 14:12, And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . .
Per Exodus 12:18 and Exodus 12:6, it can be understood to be the Nisan 14th.

 

[JonC]

I believe what is at issue is the potential of becoming dogmatic and decisive over one interpretation or counting about something we cannot definitively know.

 

[37818]

I believe what is at issue is the potential of becoming dogmatic and decisive over one interpretation or counting about something we cannot definitively know.

I will hedge what I am persuaded is irrefutable, that "it is my persuasion" that a such and such is so. That the other's agreement is not required in order for me to believe a such and such.

For example five point Calvinists do have in their minds Scriptural bases for such convictions.

Such as www.gospeldefense.com

 

[JonC]

I will hedge what I am persuaded is irrefutable, that "it is my persuasion" that a such and such is so. That the other's agreement is not required in order for me to believe a such and such.

For example five point Calvinists do have in their minds Scriptural bases for such convictions.

Such as www.gospeldefense.com

I agree in that each to their own persuasion. Your position is not, obviously, irrefutable (most Biblical scholars refute it). What you mean by irrefutable is able to dissuade you from your conclusions.


The issue, I guess, is truth is more objective than what one may be persuaded is true.

I believe we have to have a constant awarness of what IS true and what we UNDERSTAND to be true. Teach and insist on the firmer, and of course believe the latter with a grain of salt.



The most interesting part or issue of the discussion to me is the 1st century practices and sects.

The Saducees controlled the Temple. Jews knew they were corrupt, but their public worship revolved around the Temple.

If you were a Jew then you could not simply obey Exodus. You couldn't choose a proper lamb or goat on the 10th and hold it until passover.

You had to buy an "approved" animal (one the priests deemed "unblemished" and proper). And you had to pay to exchange your money for Temple currency to buy the sacrificial animal.


Then you had the Pharisees. They thought that the Law "belonged to the people". They made laws for personal obedience.

For example, you ate the passover meal after the sun had set (to make sure you didn't eat it before the technical date).


So you had two competing sects making laws that had to be observed (one sect controlled the ceremony-ritual and the other the society in general).


While not an issue to argue over, I do find the early Jewish practices fascinating. Perhaps it was not how things should have been done, but it was how it was done. And it shows their failure to keep God's commands (especially the spirit of the Law).

 

[37818]

I am of the firm persuasion the actual historical date of the crucifixion to be the Julian c calendar date April 6, 30 A.D. with a Biblical Jewish Calendar date of Nisan 15th. Based on the Biblical evidence.

I am aware of a number other Biblical views.

What I would like to see, is a side by side comparison of two different views done by anyone holding a view they are persuaded is correct. Noting, if possible, correctly key points of difference.

 

[JonC]

I am of the firm persuasion the actual historical date of the crucifixion to be the Julian c calendar date April 6, 30 A.D. with a Biblical Jewish Calendar date of Nisan 15th. Based on the Biblical evidence.

I am aware of a number other Biblical views.

What I would like to see, is a side by side comparison of two different views done by anyone holding a view they are persuaded is correct. Noting, if possible, correctly key points of difference.

Here is what I believe (not a side by side comparison, but perhaps to compare to other people’s beliefs):

Two days before the Passover and Unleavened bread the chief priests and scribes determined to arrest and kill Jesus. They decided to do this before the festival in order to minimize the chances of a riot.

On the first day of unleavened bread, when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed, Jesus sent two of His followers into the city to the “upper room”. Jesus arrived when evening had come and ate what we call “the Last Supper”.

During this meal Jesus told Peter that before the cockcrow sounded twice (the horn announcing the preparation for the Temple which sounded early in the morning) Peter would deny Him three times.

Jesus went to the Garden and was arrested. The priests lead Jesus to the high priest, and they gathered as a counsel. This was that night.

Early in the morning the whole Counsel immediately met and delivered Jesus to Pilate. Pilate desired to release Jesus. They had a custom that, at the feast, one prisoner would be released. Pilate presented the decision at that time, and the leaders cried out to crucify Jesus. This would be sometime around 9am.

The crucifixion would have happened that day. Apparently around 3pm (this is the time the sacrificial Passover lamb would be sacrificed at the Temple and prior to the priests eating of the sacrifice) Jesus died on the cross.

Jesus was laid in a nearby tomb because the Sabbath was approaching.

Most importantly, Jesus arose on the first day of the week. On that morning, while it was still dark, Mary discovered the Tomb empty.