Who is the church for?

[pituophis]

Deacon,

Thanks for using scripture, but the Great Commission says, if I am not mistaken, to "GO." Not bring. We are to go out into the world, share Jesus with the lost, baptize them, and teach them to OBEY! To obey what? One thing (among many) is to "GO."

I have some issues whith some of what Rick Warren has to say in his Purpose Driven Church book. Does anyone know of other books, web sites, etc... that will address the purpose of the local church in more of a Biblical manner?

 

[Brother Bob]

It also say "go ye into the highways and bid both the good and the bad that my table may be filled." I find it difficult to understand this thread for it seems to suggest that we are not to invite sinners in to our churches to hear the word of God, that is beyond my understanding. Once again, where do we get our members from, are we going to wait until the members we have die off waiting for the missionaries to bring in new ones? I have never heard it suggested in the past that the church house was only for the saved. I rejoice to no end, when I see the back of our church full of the neighbors who have not repented.

 

[Joseph M. Smith]

Originally posted by npetreley:

The part about the woman is from personal experience. My ex-wife was considered to be one of the most godly women in her church. She attended faithfully, tithed, trembled and cried while passionately singing the praise and worship songs, listened to and sang praise and worship songs at home, taught Beth Moore bible studies, taught sunday school. She also slept with a co-worker for years before we were married (even after his wife tried to reconcile their marriage), during our marriage, and afterward. Members of the church knew what was going on and nobody lifted a finger to do anything about it.

This is a symptom of a church that no longer cares about whether its members are really Christians, or cares about whether its Christian members are leading Godly lives. It exists to entertain, make people feel good, get more members, get the income, and sustain itself.

Perhaps this is veering off into a new thread. But I could not pass up this posting without expressing concern and sympathy for you. I am sure there was and is a great deal of pain associated with all that you report.

It is true that churches are not so good at dealing with flagrant inconsistencies in the lives of their members. And it sounds to me as though this was a case for intervention, as the behavior you describe is so extreme as to engage the attention of all but the most indifferent.

Over the years I have continued to watch and try to understand the relationship between intensely emotional religious expression and inappropriate sexual activity. I have seen it happen too many times.

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:


Jarthur001;
You give Ransom 10 high five's and the very next post say just the opposite. Either say one or the other, looks bad to try and go both ways. [/QB]

Brother Bob,

If you will check again, that 2nd post was not MY words. The OP not only asked what we thought, but also asked for other views. What I posted is clearly stated..."another view"...that being of John Piper

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/3728.html#000007

IN Christ...James

 

[npetreley]

duplicate

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Joseph M. Smith:
Perhaps this is veering off into a new thread. But I could not pass up this posting without expressing concern and sympathy for you. I am sure there was and is a great deal of pain associated with all that you report.

Thanks. It has been about 1 1/2 years and I'm still quite upset about it. Forgiveness isn't a problem, but the effects on me and my children linger.

 

[Tom Butler]

A couple of pennies worth:

In my view, my church exists for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission. A good translation of Jesus' words in Matt 28:19-20 is "Going, therefore, teach all nations..." Or, "As you're going.."

On the other hand, the primary purpose for which the congregation assembles is worship, Bible Study and fellowship--basically, equipping the saints for their "going."

Unsaved people should be welcomed in any of those gatherings, but worship, Bible study and fellowship should not necessarily be geared toward the lost. Neither should their presence be ignored.

Some more pennies worth later.

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by Tom Butler:
A couple of pennies worth:


Unsaved people should be welcomed in any of those gatherings, but worship, Bible study and fellowship should not necessarily be geared toward the lost. Neither should their presence be ignored.

Some more pennies worth later.

Hi Tom,

We will all set standards in ways in which we feel we can best expand the Kingdom. Or we should. This view posted above is one of a few that can be taken as a building block to this end.

I would change one goal. Yet this is the main goal. I see the main goal of the Church body is to be geared (to use your word.)to worship, Bible study and doctrine.(one word you left out, yet I'm sure you hold to) there by, giving the saints the strong desire and means to "go tell" the lost.

In my view..and I know this is up for debate...The church should ALWAYS bring those in Christ closer to Him. This is not 2nd hand, but the main goal, yet knowing this at the same time. That being...There will be those in Church that are unsaved. The gospel should be told each time.

This is not to say that we can not have a service where nothing but the plan of salvation is laid out. This in fact should happen from time to time. Yet i feel strongly that the church should teach believers to "go tell" outside of the church and have them deep in doctrine to do so. This "telling" should not be left up to pastor inside the church.


This last part is not to you tom...just a statement..

What we see today in many churchs is to change the church into something that the world would like. This is nothing new at all. This has been done in the past and those churchs in the end fell. Yes there is groth at 1st with in 30 years they die or are dead to Christ. The YMCA is just one of many ways this has not worked. The goal of the YMCA was to make it so that they could win the lost. Bring in the boys..play some games..and then tell them of Christ. When is the last time you went to the YMCA for Bible study? No Bible study in my town at the Y..but they do have Yoga.

Here is a hint. If you want to be like the world...and make changes to look like the world...you will be like the world.


IN Christ...James

 

[Brother Bob]

I apologize Jarthur001. I thought you got it right in second post.

 

[Brother Bob]

nept;
I am sorry for you too and my heart goes out to you and the children. It happens so much in life and has to be the hardest thing to deal with man faces here. I admire you for continuing on without questioning your faith, God bless,

BBob

 

[Brother Bob]

Tom Butler
A couple of pennies worth:

In my view, my church exists for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission. A good translation of Jesus' words in Matt 28:19-20 is "Going, therefore, teach all nations..." Or, "As you're going.."

On the other hand, the primary purpose for which the congregation assembles is worship, Bible Study and fellowship--basically, equipping the saints for their "going."

Unsaved people should be welcomed in any of those gatherings, but worship, Bible study and fellowship should not necessarily be geared toward the lost. Neither should their presence be ignored.

Brethren;
We do both at all of our Sunday Church services. The public is more than welcome and gives them a chance to hear what they would be joining themselves to and the saved gets to hear a message for the church. Also, both the saved and unsaved gets to hear of the Glories of Heaven. Man, I don't understand a church that would not bring that out everytime you come together to worship the Lord. Maybe you don't need it but it feeds my soul and I look forward to it and have never had someone object to that message. amen,

BBob

 

[Brother Bob]

Tom Butler
A couple of pennies worth:

In my view, my church exists for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission. A good translation of Jesus' words in Matt 28:19-20 is "Going, therefore, teach all nations..." Or, "As you're going.."

On the other hand, the primary purpose for which the congregation assembles is worship, Bible Study and fellowship--basically, equipping the saints for their "going."

Unsaved people should be welcomed in any of those gatherings, but worship, Bible study and fellowship should not necessarily be geared toward the lost. Neither should their presence be ignored.

Brethren;
We do both at all of our Sunday Church services. The public is more than welcome and gives them a chance to hear what they would be joining themselves to and the saved gets to hear a message for the church. Also, both the saved and unsaved gets to hear of the Glories of Heaven. Man, I don't understand a church that would not bring that out everytime you come together to worship the Lord. Maybe you don't need it but it feeds my soul and I look forward to it and have never had someone object to that message. As a matter we rejoice to the Heavens. amen,

BBob

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by pituophis:
I have some issues whith some of what Rick Warren has to say in his Purpose Driven Church book. Does anyone know of other books, web sites, etc... that will address the purpose of the local church in more of a Biblical manner?

Try 9 Marks of a Healthy Church. It is Mark Dever's attempt to re-introduce what he believes is the model of the New Testament church.

 

[Hope of Glory]

for it seems to suggest that we are not to invite sinners in to our churches to hear the word of God

Sinners? Of course they shoule be welcomed. Unsaved people? We shouldn't turn them away, but we are supposed to be there to worship the Lord and edify the brethren. If we modify every service around preaching the message of spiritual salvation, we are starving the flock by feeding them the milk of the Word.

BTW, as far as dealing with gross sin within the church, I know from experience that if you deal with it biblically and they still won't repent, there are plenty of churches that will welcome them into full fellowship. So, even if you are accountable, there is not accountability, if that makes sense.

 

[Brother Bob]

Hope of Glory;
Did you read my last post?

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
So, even if you are accountable, there is not accountability, if that makes sense.

Yes..sad but true,

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
So, even if you are accountable, there is not accountability, if that makes sense.

Yes..sad but true,

 

[Brother Bob]

Hope of Glory;
What is this referring to?

BTW, as far as dealing with gross sin within the church, I know from experience that if you deal with it biblically and they still won't repent, there are plenty of churches that will welcome them into full fellowship. So, even if you are accountable, there is not accountability, if that makes sense.

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Tom Butler
A couple of pennies worth:

In my view, my church exists for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission. A good translation of Jesus' words in Matt 28:19-20 is "Going, therefore, teach all nations..." Or, "As you're going.."

On the other hand, the primary purpose for which the congregation assembles is worship, Bible Study and fellowship--basically, equipping the saints for their "going."

Unsaved people should be welcomed in any of those gatherings, but worship, Bible study and fellowship should not necessarily be geared toward the lost. Neither should their presence be ignored.

Brethren;
We do both at all of our Sunday Church services. The public is more than welcome and gives them a chance to hear what they would be joining themselves to and the saved gets to hear a message for the church. Also, both the saved and unsaved gets to hear of the Glories of Heaven. Man, I don't understand a church that would not bring that out everytime you come together to worship the Lord. Maybe you don't need it but it feeds my soul and I look forward to it and have never had someone object to that message. As a matter we rejoice to the Heavens. amen,

BBob </font>[/QUOTE]Amen, Brother Bob.

It is entirely possible both to feed the saints and help them to grow as well as presenting the Gospel. I have heard that Spurgeon tried to present the Gospel in every single message.

 

[Brother Bob]

John of Japan;
I read Spurgeon's sermon on Salvation and believe He was probably a man you could talk with. I think He got it right but left out that when Salvation came to man, it came to all. Some received it and the most rejected and went the broad way, but He still impressed me by not using words as some use on this board and completely confuse the subject but he spoke in a language easily understood. I think Him and I could of had a good discussion, not that I am anywhere in his class just I would of liked to of put some questions to him about that "Grace" appearing to all men.