Who is the RESTRAINER of the AC?

[postrib]

...the Holy Spirit...

I don't believe the restrainer (2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) can be the Holy Spirit because many of us Christians will still be on the earth during the Antichrist's rule (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13), and no one can be a Christian without the Spirit (Romans 8:9).

I believe if Satan can be restrained by an angel (Revelation 20:1-3), then a man (the Antichrist) can be restrained by an angel also.

 

[Dr. Bob]

When I gave support for the LIMITED power of angelic beings v satan, I used the illustration of Moses body and the contention between Michael and Satan.

This was NOT from an extrabiblical (and therefore "questionable" source). It was taken directly from the KJV

But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" - Jude 9

Whether one accepts the premise that the Holy Spirit is the only Being that could actually "restrain" evil and the AntiChrist, we can find real biblical support for the limited ability of other spirit beings.

 

[weeping prophet]

Originally posted by Gavin:
[ So if preparedness is a matter of devotion and following of the real orders and not false orders then our scriptural studies on endtime themes could be a matter too critically important for the current popularity contests/book sales in eschatology. The spiritual lives of hundreds of millions of Christians hang in the balance.Blessings to you on the pilgrimage,

Gavin[/QB]

I agree ,to some degree,that escatology is important. Not to the same degree, that I would hold the importance to the doctorines of the life, death and ressurection of Christ. To be prepared for the coming of Christ, whenever it may be, is done through faith in the ressurection of Christ, (the obedience of faith) and not by being rightly informed of when/how He comes. When I preach the second coming of Christ I am purposely vauge on when His coming takes place, but very clear about how to prepare for it. Paul says," to rightly divide the Word of truth." put the empahasis where the Bible puts the emphasis. The Bible clearly puts the emphasis on faith and obedience to Jesus Himself and although escatology is profitable in it's rightful place yet it is somewhat overshadowed by the major themes of reconciliation and justification through faith in His death and ressurection.I will not hold back to preach the whole councel of God but where the Bible is vague I will be vague where it is clear, I will be clearly clear and they will be prepared. blessings my brother, WP

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Hello!

I am aware of Prewrathists believe Restrainer could be Archangel Micheal because they use Daniel 12:1, and also, some of them use Jude 9. They believe Archangel Micheal did restraining Antichrist form being to be reaveled.

I respect prewrathist, but, I disagree with them, even include Gavin also.

But, their intepreting of 2 Thess 2:7 does not bother me at all.

Pretribulationism intepreting 2 Thess 2:7 does bother me mostly.

Surprise, yes, I am partially agree with pretribbers that they believe Holy Spirit is the restrainer of 2 Thess 2:7.

Why? God is Holy Spirit. Remember, that God is trinity.

I disagree with pretribbers' interpreting on 2 Thess 2:7 that the Holy Spirit leaves as church is rapture.

I don't see the removal of the Holy Spirit in 2 Thess 2:7, it is not rapture.

My understanding of 2 Thess 2:7 is talking about Antichrist is now being holding back from to be revealed.

Who cause Antichrist being to be holding back? God does! Also, God is the Holy Spirit.

Antichrist is not allow to be revealed right now, because it is not his time yet. God knows when the time is right, then God will allow Antichrist to be revealed.

Paul tells us, Antichrist shall be removed from the midst(mystery)then he shall be revealed- 2 Thess 2:8.

'He' of 2 Thess 2:7 is Antichrist, because of the context of 2 Thess 2:3-8 is focus on Antichrist, not Holy Spirit.

I let you know there is no word 'restrainer' in 2 Thess 2:7.

It tells us, that he is holding back. Means Antichrist is holding back from being to be revealed.

If suppose pretribbers says, 'he' is Holy Spirit. Then that means, Holy Spirit being to be holding back, means Holy Spirit can't do anything with the Church since Early Church to present, there is no revival, no gospel, no conivinction!!Their interpreting is make no sense to me.

Pretribbers' interpreting of 2 Thess 2:7 is a twist.

You have to understand 2 Thess 2:7 more clear, you have to read the context of 2 Thess 2:3-8 carefully.

Conclusion: 2 Thess 2:7 is talking about Antichrist is now being holding back from being to be revealed.

The question is: Why does the Antichrist is now being holding back? I believe the reason he is now holding back, God have his purpose of his desire want to see more people to become saved by the gospel. The gospel must spread over all the world then the end will come - Matt 24:14. Second, Antichrist cannot be revealed till Church become apostasy(2 Thess 2:3), as the world condition getting worser, then when the time is right, God will allow Antichrist to be revealed.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Daniel David]

I don't know of a single, respectable pretribber that thinks the Holy Spirit "leaves" the earth at the rapture.

There are certain roles that the Holy Spirit will not perform after the rapture - baptizing believers into Christ's Body would be one of them.

The Holy Spirit has been on earth since the beginning. In John 3, Jesus rebukes Nicodemus for not understanding the new birth. That was pre-church.

I personally am pretrib and think the restrainer is Michael.

Out like the church before the tribulation.

 

[zyzex]

II Thess, 2:7 (which is the reference scripture) I believe is to be read in context with the remainder of the discussed subject. There are places in each Thessalonian epistle that discusses something being taken out of the world, namely God's faithful ones, His church. (Rev. 3:7-13) Traditionally, it has been accepted that God's Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, but the problem with this interpretation, is that no where else in the scriptures does it hint of such an action from God, and secondly, how will the 12 tribes of Israel (the 144,000) receive the power to evangelize the world and cause to bring conviction on the hearers of the Gospel message? (Rev. 14:1-13)without the presence of the Holy Spirit? (John 16:7-16)

 

[Pete Richert]

Okay, first off, if Jude says Archangel Michal did this and that in front of the devil, then it happened, I don't care what his source was. Even if not all "the ascention of Moses" is true, anything the Holy Spirit decides to quote in His Book is certainly trustworthy.

But . . .
I have to disagree with Doctor Bob on this one. It doesn't seem to me that Jude is making any judgement whatsoever on the relative power of Michael and Satan, and who was ABLE to do what. Instead, he was discussing whether in Michael would "presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgemnt". It seems to me (and I am wrong about 65% of the time) that in context Jude is saying that this evil men who are coming in the last days do all these things and even "blaspheme the glorious ones", which even Michael himself would not do, and therefor this is seriouly wrong.

The whole passage,

"Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, refect authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgement, but said, "The Lord rebuke you." But these pople blaspheme all that they do not understand, . . . (Jude 8-10a; ESV)

Now I might agree with the good Doctor that Michael may not have power to restrain Satan, but I don't think that is what is being taught here.

 

[hrhema]

I believe it is the Holy Spirit and I don't believe the Holy Spirit will be removed from the Earth. The Holy Spirit will just quit holding the Anti-Christ back.

 

[Pastork]

Question:

Who is the "restrainer of the AC"?

Answer:

I don't know.

And neither does anyone else.

We are all just guessing.

Pastork

 

[wjrighter]

gavin? i'm no scholar; but think about this;
in 2th2:5 remember ye not,that,when i was was yet with you,i told you these things? now trip on over to jn16:7-14; i think Holy Spirit is usually reffered to as HE. vs.7 being very important here;compare vs.7 in 2th.ch.2- same he?
respectfully bill

 

[Sularis]

The Holy Spirit will quit doing parts of His job after the Rapture - BAH!

It makes far more sense to me at the least that the Holy Spirit is presiding over Christ and His church's wedding feast - while the Father decides to get personally involved

Im probably not a respectable enough pre-tribber - after all I was just told Im not "Christian" enough to date/court/relate to

When the church goes - Spirit goes - thats why mankind in mass numbers will be decieved in that the *shudder* "prevenient" grace or work of the Spirit will be absent. I believe that the aspect of the Father will be the one calling forth those who would be His children by mighty works of power and destruction.

 

[Bible Student]

Question:

Who is the "restrainer of the AC"?

Answer:

I don't know.

And neither does anyone else.

We are all just guessing.

Pastork

I agree, There are a lot of "doctrine" that is based on sheer conjection. Yes, we must hold the faith and teach doctrine, but too much of what we call doctrine is based on "proof text." And if we would all get rid of our pride, we would admit there is much we do not understand about God's Word or God's Mind. IMHO

Richard

 

[DeafPosttrib]

[Quote}Question:

Who is the "restrianer of the AC"?

Answer:

I don't know

And neither does anyone else.

We are all just guessing[/Quote]

Being to be guessing what the scripture is talking about. It is not safe to guessing it.

If you saying, we are just guessing it.

Then, why does Pretribbers saying 2 Thess 2:7 is a pretribulation???

Does Apostle Paul saying 2 Thess 2:7 is a pretribulation?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Pastork]

DeafPosttrib,

Those who hold to a pre-tribulation rapture read 2Thess.2:7 through the lense of their particular view. It is my thinking that most of them do this in a sincere effort to interpret Scripture by Scripture. However, when 'push comes to shove' I have found that most of them admit that their interpretation of the passage is only a possible one among several possibilities, although they would see it as the best possibilty from which to chose. I also don't personally know anyone who holds to a pre-tribulation view that makes this text one of his primary arguments.

Perhaps I should point out that I hold to a post-tribulation rapture. In my view, every position regarding the rapture ( pre-, post-, mid-, prewrath, or whatever) is an inference. Nowhere does Scripture directly state any one of these views. However, it is my opinion that the post-tribulation view is the strongest and most obvious inference, and therefore most likely to be correct. I also think that it does a better job of putting all the various passages that touch on the subject together in a unified and consistent manner. However, the pre-trib folks I know feel the same way. This is why at my church we agree to disagree on such issues. For example, although I as the pastor hold to a post-trib view, most of the congregation holds to a pre-trib view or a prewrath view. Given the inferential nature of all of these views, isn't this the best course to take?

Pastork

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Hello!

I am surprise that you saying, you are pastor, and you are posttrib. Most of your congregation are pretrib.

That is rare.

But, I am also leader for the deaf ministry. I am allow people to believe in pretrib long as they stay keep their beliefs. I can't force them. I urge them to study the Bible by theirselve. But if they want to ask questions to me, I would be glad to give answers to them in the Bible with the truth.

Being debate on the timing of rapture have do nothing with salvation. We all agree that Jesus will come again. Also, we all agree Jesus died on the cross to saved us from hell. That is the most important for us.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[postrib]

...Out like the church before the tribulation...

Note that no scripture promises us a rapture before the tribulation. Jesus says he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and Paul says Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). We Christians must go through the coming tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13).