Oneness replied:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Here is where we differ i guess. I dont know if you read this on my other post. But if you would please read this and tell me waht you think. Its concerning why Peter baptized in the Name of Jesus
quote:
The Name of God is Jesus. Now let me show you how I know this.
Look at the Great Commission in Matt 28:19. Jesus told them to baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son, And Holy Ghost.
Now look at the Great Commission in Luke 24:45-49. Same Commission but diffrent author decribeing what was said.
44. And he said * unto them, These are the words which I spake * unto you, while * I was yet with you, that all things must * be fulfilled * , which were written * in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45. Then opened he * their understanding, that they might understand * the scriptures,
46. And said * unto them, Thus it is written * , and thus it behoved * Christ to suffer * , and to rise * from the dead the third day:
47. And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached * in his name among all nations,beginning * at Jerusalem.
48. And ye are * witnesses of these things.
49. And, behold * , I send * the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry * ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued * with power from on high.
Note: Jesus is the one doing the talking here ok.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I thought we were talking about the "keys" given to Peter, but I will do the best I can to understand where you are going here…
Anyway, of course, it is Jesus doing the talking…
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
quote:
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47. And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached * in HIS NAMEamong all nations,beginning * at Jerusalem.
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Now I want to say this where you will understand what I am saying.
Note: If Jesus is Talking and says To Preach Remission of Sins in "HIS" NAME. He is not referring to himself b/c he said HIS.(Meaning someone diffrent.) b.c he said "HIS" and not "MY" Name.
Does that Make since?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not exactly. Look back to verse 46 and note who Jesus is speaking of. It is the
Messiah that God promised. And when you look at the noun "His," grammatically, it can only refer back to "Messiah" in verse 46. And since we know that Jesus is indeed, that Messiah, then Jesus is referring to himself when He says "His."
If Jesus had not used a "third person speaking" approach, starting out in verse 46 as "I am the Messiah that was promised" or similar words, then it would have been appropriate for him to use the "My" in verse 47 instead of "His."
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now woulden't you agree that Acts 2:38 is the fulfillment of The Great Commission listed in Matt 28:19 and Luke 24:45-49?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is not a fulfillment, but the grand beginning!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Jesus told them to teach Repentance, And thats what Peter preached(Acts 2:38)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Again, it is the grand beginning of the gospel that is still being preached in the Church today, as it began at Pentecost! And in that preaching comes conversions, and in conversions, comes baptism. Christ Himself gave the formula to use in this baptism, using the phrase, "…in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," not "in His name" or My name" or whatever. When Peter says "baptize in the name of Jesus" is to define what type of baptism it is - Jesus' baptism.
Christ is specific as to how this is done in Matthew 28:19 Peter, in the rethoric appropriate in a speech, would have found it awkward to say, "…Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the holy Spirit." Instead, Peter says "
…in the name of Jesus Christ.." as to focus on the
act they are to have performed upon them, rather then in the precise formula Christ gave, to emphasize the impact of what he is saying.
Let me give you an analog example of this:
Let us say that
Jiffylube has a specific program for changing the oil and oil filter in your car that goes something like this, "With the car safely elevated above, remove the oil plug and allow to drain. And then remove the old oil filter and allow it to drain. After ascertaining that the gasket area is clean and lubricated with a small amount of new oil, install the new filter, tightening it only by hand until it is snug. Install the drain plug, only tightening it about ¼ to ½ a turn with a hand wrench with modest torque so that it is not too tight for future removal. Install new oil to the correct level and then turn on engine to test for possible leaks."
Now, if I tell you to get your oil and filter changed, which is better for me to say, all of the above, or to simply say, "Get your oil and oil filter changed according to
Jiffylube"?
Now, the formula for baptism as given by Christ in Matthew 28:19 is not quite that complicated, nevertheless, it is appropriate for Peter to say "…Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus" without detailing the specifics, the rubrics of how this is to be done by the minister or priest who performs it.
Another thing; would it not be appropriate for one to study how the early church performed baptism? Here is a link that not only goes into more detail on the issue of "Oneness" baptism, but also quotes several of the
early church fathers, including the famous
Didache dated to as early as A.D. 70 (at the very edge of the apostolic era) that you should read and consider. I give the link here:
<A HREF="http://www.catholic.com/library/trinitarian_baptism.asp" TARGET=_blank>http://www.catholic.com/library/trinitarian_baptism.asp[/URL]</A>
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Jesus told them to preach Remission of Sins in "His" Name (remember what I said about "His"?) and Peter Preached remission of sins through baptisim in THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS(Acts 2:38)
now the final question is "Who is "HIS NAME" referring to?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Answer: Jesus' baptism! And Jesus has the precise formula for doing that as I have already given.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If you will look at Matt 28:19 you will find out whose NAME Jesus was talking about in Luke 24:45-49<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually the name is GOD! Jesus says, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son (Himself) and of the holy Spirit." The glorious TRINITY that is a mystery we will not fathom until we are in His company, in the
Beatific Vision of Our Lord in heaven!
Here are a couple of links that explains the Trinity better then I can:
http://www.catholic.com/library/trinity.asp
http://www.catholic.com/library/god_in_three_persons.asp
Have a good read!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
quote:
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Go ye * therefore, and teach * all nations, baptizing * them in the NAME of the Father, AND OF the Son, AND OF the Holy Ghost
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NOTE: "AND OF" the father "AND OF" the son "AND OF" the holy GHost is not referring to three diffrent names or people, but it is referring to the ONE Name of the ONE God With those Three diffrent titles. NAME is singular not plural.
That is who "HIS NAME" is referring to in Luke 24:45-49!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, not at all! It is, in totality, GOD. Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity - The Son.
Yet Jesus is indeed, God in totality, as well as the Father is God in Totality, as well as the Holy Spirit is God in totality, yet in three persons is God expressed. Three persons in the One God!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Jesus did not tell them to preach remisson of Sins in "THEIR" name. That is how we know that God is one PERSON. (His is singular)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
God is the ONE GOD, yet he has three "persons" called the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Not three gods, but ONE God! Jesus is God, The Father is God, and the holy Spirit is God, yet there is only one God. And that is why it is a mystery we do not understand…
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now Jesus told them to teach all nations in Matt28:19. And if we Look at Luke 24:45-49 we can find out what Jesus wanted them to teach.(Repentance and Remission of Sins in his name)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gee, I see the need for baptism as well, don't we?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>So now when we look at Acts 2:38 We will find out what that One Name is Of The Father, Son And Holy Ghost.
What did Peter say that Name was? JESUS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, Peter is referring to the baptism as established by Jesus, per John 3 with his discourse with Nicodemus. But that involves the salvific nature of baptism, which I am thoroughly prepared to discuss with you sometime…
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Peter had the keys to heaven and He knew What that Name was and that why he preached what he did. I Know Peter knew what he was talking about.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know what Peter is talking about as well, and it certainly was not "oneness" baptism! See again the links I provided that demonstrates this…
Oneness, You are a "oneness" Pentecostal person, right?
I love all you guys and I will not sit here and condemn what you believe, but only demonstrate what my church believes and teaches. If I do not convince you of anything, you will at least know where I argue my position from, both from scripture and from the earliest teachings of the Church via the writings of the early church fathers. I would suggest you read them, but beware, you will find them talking just a bit too "Catholic" for your own taste, I think…
Seek the truth, Oneness, and I hope you find it…
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)
[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: WPutnam ]
I JUST WANTED TO HEAR YOU SAY IT.
BEY ACTS 2:38. CAUSE PETER HAS THE ATHORITY AND WHAT PETER SAYS GOES FOR THEM AND FOR US.