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Who is ultimately Guilty

KUWN

New Member
Do you remember Oedipus of Greek legend? He was the son of Laius, king of Thebes.



Here’s the story in a nutshell:



An oracle had warned Laius that he was fated to be killed by his own son; he therefore abandoned Oedipus on a mountainside. The baby was rescued, however, by a shepherd and brought to the king of Corinth, who adopted him. When Oedipus was grown, he learned from the Delphic oracle that he would kill his father and marry his mother. He fled Corinth to escape this fate, mistaking his foster parents as his real parents. At a crossroad he encountered Laius, quarreled with him, and killed him (his real father). He continued on to Thebes, where the sphinx was killing all who could not solve her riddle. Oedipus answered it correctly and so won the widowed queen's hand (his real mother). The prophecy was thus fulfilled.



Here’s my question to ponder: Who was ultimately responsible and therefore guilty of killing Laius?



Most people would say, “Oedipus.” But that really doesn’t address my question. In other words, Oedipus may have struck the fatal blow, but my question is actually looking for who ULTIMATELY was responsible.



Let me re-ask the question thus: Was not Laius responsible for his own death since he could have PREVENTED it? By his own actions, he ALLOWED his own death, right?



“PREVENTED it,” you ask? Yes. Laius did not have to have children to begin with. By ALLOWING Oedipus to be born, he took responsibility for all subsequent actions, right?



After all, that’s the same logic we apply to God. He created angels and people. People, for example, do bad things, therefore, God is responsible since he could have prevented it, right?



So, getting back to the story of Oedipus, since Laius could have PREVENTED his own death, and because he ultimately ALLOWED Oedipus to come into this world, my question is: Isn’t Laius ULTIMATELY responsible for his own death? In fact, he is guilty of his own death since he could have PREVENTED it?



Now, let’s apply this same logic to God. God created Satan. Satan commits all kinds of acts of evil. So, isn’t God ULTIMATELY responsible and guilty for all this evil since God could have prevented it? We could go so far as to say, "Since God allows it, he is guilty of it."



If your answer is, Yes. Then you by the same logic would have to find Laius guilty of his own death. He could have prevented it; and he allowed it. Sounds silly, doesn’t it?
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Do you remember Oedipus of Greek legend? He was the son of Laius, king of Thebes.



Here’s the story in a nutshell:



An oracle had warned Laius that he was fated to be killed by his own son; he therefore abandoned Oedipus on a mountainside. The baby was rescued, however, by a shepherd and brought to the king of Corinth, who adopted him. When Oedipus was grown, he learned from the Delphic oracle that he would kill his father and marry his mother. He fled Corinth to escape this fate, mistaking his foster parents as his real parents. At a crossroad he encountered Laius, quarreled with him, and killed him (his real father). He continued on to Thebes, where the sphinx was killing all who could not solve her riddle. Oedipus answered it correctly and so won the widowed queen's hand (his real mother). The prophecy was thus fulfilled.



Here’s my question to ponder: Who was ultimately responsible and therefore guilty of killing Laius?



Most people would say, “Oedipus.” But that really doesn’t address my question. In other words, Oedipus may have struck the fatal blow, but my question is actually looking for who ULTIMATELY was responsible.



Let me re-ask the question thus: Was not Laius responsible for his own death since he could have PREVENTED it? By his own actions, he ALLOWED his own death, right?



“PREVENTED it,” you ask? Yes. Laius did not have to have children to begin with. By ALLOWING Oedipus to be born, he took responsibility for all subsequent actions, right?



After all, that’s the same logic we apply to God. He created angels and people. People, for example, do bad things, therefore, God is responsible since he could have prevented it, right?



So, getting back to the story of Oedipus, since Laius could have PREVENTED his own death, and because he ultimately ALLOWED Oedipus to come into this world, my question is: Isn’t Laius ULTIMATELY responsible for his own death? In fact, he is guilty of his own death since he could have PREVENTED it?



Now, let’s apply this same logic to God. God created Satan. Satan commits all kinds of acts of evil. So, isn’t God ULTIMATELY responsible and guilty for all this evil since God could have prevented it? We could go so far as to say, "Since God allows it, he is guilty of it."



If your answer is, Yes. Then you by the same logic would have to find Laius guilty of his own death. He could have prevented it; and he allowed it. Sounds silly, doesn’t it?

But what you fail to take into account is that Laius did not determine all the actions of Oedipus.

Biblically God does not determine all our actions but has given man a free will thus we are responsible for our actions.

Under calvinism, which it seems you are trying to defend, God does determine all our thoughts and actions via divine determinism, so in that case it is calvinism that has made God responsible for all the sin and evil we see in the world.

That is why calvinism is so silly a religious view.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Satan commits all kinds of acts of evil. So, isn’t God ULTIMATELY responsible and guilty for all this evil since God could have prevented it?

No. God inserted Adam into Eden knowing full well that it would provoke Satan (who was first and in charge) to jealousy. God knew the iniquity that was already in Satan's heart and brought it to fruition for all (the host of heaven) to see through his deception (attack on) of Eve and the subsequent choice made by Adam.

Few consider that this is actually when Satan fell also.

So, if this be so, who is the author of sin?
 
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