What a ridiculous thread
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Who Killed Christ? Jews or Romans?
- Thread starter DrJamesAch
- Start date
DrJamesAch
New Member
What is ridiculous is that a thread like this even has to be written. It may not be important to YOU, but six million of my kinsmen according to the flesh were murdered because of this logic, not to mention that it was also used by Luther to murder Jews.
It is still used today to garner support AGAINST Israel, and is still the logic used by the Roman Catholic Church in their continued persecution of anything "Israel". It is still the rhetoric used by the KKK, Skull and Bones, Aryan Nations, Aryan Brotherhood, Church of Jesus Christ Christian, Christian Identity and Islam. Considering that covers a few BILLION people, I'd say that makes the thread NOT ridiculous, but you're entitled to your opinion, I guess.
That is not why they were murdered? Those who want to kill Jews are just looking for an excuse. It is not a legitimate claim. And starting dumb threads like this is not going to influence anyone.
Only idiots blame the Jews over and above anyone else. All of our sin put Jesus there. Jesus went willingly not because of the Jews or anyone else. Had Jesus not chosen to go He would never have been there. Pay them no mind such small minds hold no influence over anyone.
I know there is a little antisemitism on this board. I am sorry that is the case.
Last edited by a moderator:
. . . at the behest of the Jewish nation.
You see the difference in your posts and mine? Yours are streams of interminable verbosity, because you attempt to revise the truth.
The truth is on my side, so my posts can be very short. I simply let the weight of the truth force the issues.
DrJamesAch
New Member
And short posts are the standard of truth? So I guess that makes the Quran more authoritative than the Bible because it has fewer words? Marks account of the gospel must be more accurate than John's because John used 21 chapters and Mark used 16.
Unfortunately, some things need to be explained to those who DONT GET IT. Don't you Calvinists have CREEDS and CATECHISMS?
And the "weight of evidence" is certainly NOT on "your side". Not my fault that you don't know the Bible well enough to see ALL of the verses on this subject instead of just building an argument around a few sparse proof texts, and then attempting to disparage the opponent merely because he uses MORE "verbiage" and verse than you.
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous defenses I have ever heard.
"At the behest" of someone else does not excuse the actual killer of murder. Find that in your "short answers" from the OT laws against co-conspirators. Did Haman get hung for KILLING Mordecai? No, he was hung for TRYING to. Show me in the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy against conspiracies how the Lord justifies murder merely because SOMEONE ELSE PUT YOU UP TO IT.
Last edited by a moderator:
It is well known there is some history of lynching in the USA, especially in the Deep South and the Old West. Do you blame only the ones who tied the noose around the victim's neck or slapped the horse's backside, or are the members of the mob, most of whom did not do the act, as guilty as the bolder(?) ones who did?
If it is solely on the part of the Jews, then why did Pilate "wash his hands" in symbolic nature of washing any guilt of the sentence of death of this man.
Could he really wash away his part, his sin, through immersing his hands in water?
If you believe that you have serious theological problems.
Acts 3:
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this man? or why fasten ye your eyes on us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.
14 But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you,
15 and killed the Prince of life; whom God raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
I guess Peter and the other witnesses had serious 'theological problems', NOWHERE do they convict Pilate or the Romans of the crime.
Last edited by a moderator:
saturneptune
New Member
All of you are wrong. Bush did it.
And all your bloviation, bombast, and bluster doesn’t change the fact that the Holy Spirit squarely places the blame on the Jews:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2017224#post2017224
…not the Romans, not Pilate, not me, not others, but the Jews are convicted of the crime.
Last edited by a moderator:
It is not Peter's responsibility to convict Pilate or the Roman's is it?
Pilate will someday stand before God and will give account of his actions. Will he be found innocent on all charges?
Protestant
Well-Known Member
Crucifixion not Sin??
“All unrighteousness is sin” (1 John 5:17a)
If the crucifixion of Christ was not a sinful act (not to mention the most despicable act in history) then it must have been a righteous act because murder which is not sin is righteous.
“for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” (Romans 14:23b)
If the crucifixion of Christ was not a sinful act (not to mention the most despicable act in history) then the murder of Christ must have been an act of faith.
Therefore, we must conclude that the Romans and Jews were faithful and righteous in putting to death the Lord of glory in the most inhumane manner possible.
We must also include Satan as part of the faithful and righteous.
Really??
Let us instead say that what Satan and wicked men willingly did with an evil, sinful intention, God mercifully purposed it for our eternal good.
“All unrighteousness is sin” (1 John 5:17a)
If the crucifixion of Christ was not a sinful act (not to mention the most despicable act in history) then it must have been a righteous act because murder which is not sin is righteous.
“for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” (Romans 14:23b)
If the crucifixion of Christ was not a sinful act (not to mention the most despicable act in history) then the murder of Christ must have been an act of faith.
Therefore, we must conclude that the Romans and Jews were faithful and righteous in putting to death the Lord of glory in the most inhumane manner possible.
We must also include Satan as part of the faithful and righteous.
Really??
Let us instead say that what Satan and wicked men willingly did with an evil, sinful intention, God mercifully purposed it for our eternal good.
:laugh::laugh:
Understanding the political climate of the day, and the problem Judea was for Rome, and the ignominy of being appointed governor of the region would help shed some light on the pressure Pilate had to placate the Jews.
You think of the pressure to convict Zimmerman of murder under threats of riots, take it to the power of ten, and you might understand Pilate's position. (Add to that Pilate's disregard of innocent life, anyway.)
Washing his hands was a witness against the Jews, who, in their lust for blood willingly, joyfully and hungrily craved the blame. His blood be upon us and our children. (A line which was censored from Gibson's The Passion of the Christ under Jewish pressure.)
Rome finally had enough of Judea, and put an end to it in 70 A.D.
You really need to let it go. You have come out very strongly in this board against Calvinism. When people do that Calvinists want them destroyed and will oppose any and everything they say in an attempt to do that. And I thing that is some of what is going on here. If they can find a kink in your armor, if they can find a way to personally discredit and destroy they will. This back and forth of such an emotional issue does not benefit you. And it only gives them a reason to tear you down. Let it go.
It was Peters' destiny to be a witness in the conviction of 'that generation':
When Christ commissioned the twelve apostles He foretold them:
But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to councils, and in their synagogues they will scourge you; yea and before governors and kings shall ye be brought for my sake, for a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, be not anxious how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you. Mt 10:17-20
In the Olivet Discourse He foretold them:
But before all these things, they shall lay their hands on you, and shall persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for my name`s sake. It shall turn out unto you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate beforehand how to answer: for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to gainsay. Lk 21:12-15
In the Farewell Discourse He foretold them:
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God.....And he, when he [the Comforter] is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they believe not on me; of righteousness, because I go to the Father, and ye behold me no more; of judgment, because the prince of this world hath been judged. Jn 16:2, 8-11
The 'world' that is referred to is:
Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world; I ever taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and in secret spake I nothing. Jn 18:20
It was CHRIST HIMSELF speaking through Peter and His witnesses in convicting the Jews of the heinous crime of crucifying the Lord of Glory.
Last edited by a moderator:
Back and forth? You either accept the very plain statements of scripture or you don't. It's very simple. Like Ro 9, very straight forward and simple, you either accept it or you don't.
Last edited by a moderator: