Sad but true. I have spent a lot of time studying WOF but it has a way of wiggling into all different kinds of circle where no one raises an eye brow at it.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Who owns the earth?
- Thread starter blessedwife318
- Start date
- Status
Sad but true. I have spent a lot of time studying WOF but it has a way of wiggling into all different kinds of circle where no one raises an eye brow at it.
Again as you can look back on this post satan is in control of this earth as far as God allows. God has angels and the Holy Spirit restraining Him right now. Those will be removed when the Tribulation begins. I have always maintained that God owns the Earth. God set the terms of man's salvation didn't he? Why would He not set the terms of the earths redemption? The redemption of that which was lost. What was lost at the Fall? When man sinned what fell?
What was lost when Adam sinned, what happened to the earth? Who is the prince and power of the air and the influence of evil on this earth?
Don't call it a mortgage I was using that to described what occured. Man sinned, the curse came upon the earth. Does man still really have dominion?
Dominion like Adam had. Where the animals didn't fear him but came before him to be named. Where there were no thorns and thistles? Adam lost that so I used the term mortgaged. How about this
Leviticus 25:23 "The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine, for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
24 And in all the land of your possession ye shall grant a redemption for the land."
It is called a redemption so Adam granted a redemption of the dominion of the earth. God still owns it, always has always will. Israelites were allowed to grant a redemption, a mortgage if that is what this is like, except it wasn't permanent.
thus the terms were written on a scroll in the law of Israel. That scroll was seven sealed just as the seven sealed scroll of Revelation 5.
What would be a term for that scroll of redemption ot the granting of a redemption. That is what I mean that the earth is being redeemed in the Tribulation. Adam gave up dominion when he sinned, is that any better? How would you term it?
What do we have here?
1 Chronicles 21:1-3,
1 "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
2 And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.
3 And Joab answered, The Lord make his people an hundred times so many more as they be: but, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? why then doth my lord require this thing? why will he be a cause of trespass to Israel?"
Seems satan used the principality wile to influence David.
And this has what to do with the topic at hand?
Also, look at the cross reference:
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. - 2Sa 24:1 KJV
As Luther said, "The devil is God’s devil"
The what?
The earth came under a curse and I likened it to a mortgage in the fact that it must be redeemed from the curse? The terms which are laid out in the 7 sealed book in Revelation. So what is a better modern day analogy for this. Because what do most folks think when they hear something is cursed? Who would have cursed it?
Trying to get this back into basic terms instead of the deep analytical approach my brain kicks into.
Adam had to work by the sweat of his brow. But he could never restore what was lost, the terms of the grant of Redemption cannot be met by mankind, only Christ can meet those terms and He is worthy to open the scroll of the Redemption of the earth in order to redeem the earth. Does that make better sense that the mortgage analogy?
Genesis 3:17-19,
17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
This was in answer to your Assyrian question.
In what possible way?
Never mind let me get my analytical deep thinking brain backed up and get back to you. I get into that mode sometimes and need to slow it down a lot.
I agree, but wasn't that what Satan promised to give? When scripture states that Satan is the ruler of this world, that does not in any way diminished God sovereignty.
world does not automatically mean earth.
Agreed, it usually has one of 3 meanings,
1. The earth
2. The people on the earth
3. Or the world system
Context clears up which one is correct.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Last edited by a moderator:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
All I can say is that you do a good imitation of the Word of Faith heretics!
Adam mortgaged the earth?:laugh:-:laugh:-:laugh:-:laugh:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Many years ago, before I had read anything about the WoF, I had a man in my SS class say: "Jesus Christ had to go to hell to be purified."
I asked for Scripture but he had none.
A year or so later he made the same statement: "Jesus Christ had to go to hell to be purified."
I reminded him that I had previously asked for Scripture and unless he could produce Scripture not to make that statement again. A few weeks later he left my class and the Church. Saw him months later and he said he was starting a Church of his very own.-:tonofbricks:
After I had learned about the WoF heresy I knew where he got that idea. Sadly it is similar in tone of the idea that the Seven Year Tribulation will redeem/renew the earth, or that Adam mortgaged the earth to Satan!:BangHead:
Now that things have slowed down let's look at this again.
Revelation 5 is the key, the key that opens the entire book of Revelation. The right interpretation of the mysterious little book or scroll will therefore give us the correct understanding of the rest of the book.
1 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."
What is this sealed book?
The first thing which we see is that the book is seven-sealed. We see the throne of God the Father and so this is the Father’s right hand which holds the book written within and on the backside and sealed with seven seals. We are seeing this from the perspective of when John was living not today so the book is really a scroll. Like a roll of parchment. When we are told that this book was sealed with seven seals, understand that the scroll was rolled up to a certain point, and there a seal was put on the edge so that it could not be opened until that seal was broken. It was rolled up a little farther and another seal put on, and so on until there were six seals on the edge of the book and one seal closing the entire scroll. When the first seal was opened a certain portion of the scroll was exposed to view and so with each one following. When the seventh was broken then the entire book would be unrolled.
Leviticus 25: 24 “And in all the land of your possession ye shall grant a redemption for the land.”
The terms were of redemption were written in originally in Biblical Times on two different scrolls. Written on these were the terms of the redemption of the lost possession. Is the earth a lost possession to man?
The main document was placed in the temple to be brought out only when the near kinsman redeemer gave evidence that he was willing and able to redeem it. Is Christ the near Kinsman redeemer?
The near kinsman redeemer would go to the priest or judge and demand that the sealed document be brought forth and the debtor be freed Christ met the terms for our redemption on the cross.
But the property needed to be returned. Has it or is it still under the curse from the fall?
If this relative this near kinsman was able to prove he could meet the terms able to pay the redemption price, if he could meet all the conditions of the law, the sealed scroll was produced and he publicly opened the seals. Which would validate his claim and make invalid the mortgage on the Land. Then the debtor was able to return to his possession. After the Tribulation which is the wrath of God and his Judgment upon the earth is the Earth redeemed and back into its original state?
Isaiah 11:6-9 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. "
Eventually the practice of one scroll instead of two was adopted. Instead of two one public scroll and one sealed these were combined into one. One scroll or book was used. The terms of the redemption was written on both sides within and without. When the scroll was rolled into a tube and sealed with the seven seals, the inside corresponded to the secret record and the outside containing the terms for the public and especially the near kinsman redeemer. Who might want to know the terms of redemption of the lost possession! That is the picture we see here in Revelation 5.
contd
Revelation 5 is the key, the key that opens the entire book of Revelation. The right interpretation of the mysterious little book or scroll will therefore give us the correct understanding of the rest of the book.
1 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."
What is this sealed book?
The first thing which we see is that the book is seven-sealed. We see the throne of God the Father and so this is the Father’s right hand which holds the book written within and on the backside and sealed with seven seals. We are seeing this from the perspective of when John was living not today so the book is really a scroll. Like a roll of parchment. When we are told that this book was sealed with seven seals, understand that the scroll was rolled up to a certain point, and there a seal was put on the edge so that it could not be opened until that seal was broken. It was rolled up a little farther and another seal put on, and so on until there were six seals on the edge of the book and one seal closing the entire scroll. When the first seal was opened a certain portion of the scroll was exposed to view and so with each one following. When the seventh was broken then the entire book would be unrolled.
Leviticus 25: 24 “And in all the land of your possession ye shall grant a redemption for the land.”
The terms were of redemption were written in originally in Biblical Times on two different scrolls. Written on these were the terms of the redemption of the lost possession. Is the earth a lost possession to man?
The main document was placed in the temple to be brought out only when the near kinsman redeemer gave evidence that he was willing and able to redeem it. Is Christ the near Kinsman redeemer?
The near kinsman redeemer would go to the priest or judge and demand that the sealed document be brought forth and the debtor be freed Christ met the terms for our redemption on the cross.
But the property needed to be returned. Has it or is it still under the curse from the fall?
If this relative this near kinsman was able to prove he could meet the terms able to pay the redemption price, if he could meet all the conditions of the law, the sealed scroll was produced and he publicly opened the seals. Which would validate his claim and make invalid the mortgage on the Land. Then the debtor was able to return to his possession. After the Tribulation which is the wrath of God and his Judgment upon the earth is the Earth redeemed and back into its original state?
Isaiah 11:6-9 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. "
Eventually the practice of one scroll instead of two was adopted. Instead of two one public scroll and one sealed these were combined into one. One scroll or book was used. The terms of the redemption was written on both sides within and without. When the scroll was rolled into a tube and sealed with the seven seals, the inside corresponded to the secret record and the outside containing the terms for the public and especially the near kinsman redeemer. Who might want to know the terms of redemption of the lost possession! That is the picture we see here in Revelation 5.
contd
This is the picture we see in Revelation 5.
2 "And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon."
No one is found worthy! What about Adam? Don’t we still look and say Adam was given Dominion didn’t the earth and all that God created wasn’t it given to him? After all God created man, He placed him in the Garden right? Didn’t God say he was all his (dominion)? Why doesn’t he come forward after all wasn’t he the one who brought it under the curse? Adam would have to say, “I forfeited my inheritance because of sin. It was mine, but I sinned it away. The devil cheated me out of it, and I no longer have any title to it.” The Apostles will be there and not one of them can say “I have the right to be the Kinsman redeemer, you and I are there as part of the bride, the Bride that is the church cannot say I have the right to claim it as Kinsman redeemer, we can’t we aren’t worthy. No one steps up to say, “I have title to that world.” Not a man in all God’s universe can say, “It is mine.” John begins to weep!
5 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."
Here is the Kinsman redeemer the Lamb, that is Jesus Christ, He takes the book that is, the scroll for He is worthy to unseal the book. In this book are the terms of redemption. Each time a seal is opened we see that the terms are in some way a Tribulation or a judgement one might say. Each seal carries a term of redemption. The price must be met for each of the terms contained or the possession would not be redeemed under the Law of Israel. So the payment is made as each vial and plague are poured out as each and every trumpet sounds the payment of the terms of Redemption for the earth are being met.
Adam lost possession that is dominion, the earth is still under the curse.
Genesis 3:17-18.
17”And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;”
Not only was the ground cursed, deserts, waste, barren lands would appear to be under the curse. All the vegetation is under the same curse. Thorns and thistles, weeds begin to spring up. All as a result of the corruption of their nature. All of which was brought on by the curse. Not only were the vegetables and minerals affected by the curse, so too were the animals, all were under the curse.
Romans 8:22 “For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”
Christ came to redeem all that Adam lost and He is a perfect redeemer a complete redeemer. He is the second and Last Adam. He will bring deliverance to everything that came under Adam’s curse. He will redeem the earth. The desert shall blossom like the rose. He will redeem the vegetables.
Isaiah 35:7 "And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes."
This is all fulfilled in Revelation 20 when Christ reigns on this earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. But the Tribulation must take place in order that the terms of redemption be met. Then the Lord will return with His Bride and all unbelievers will die. Then the 1000 year reign will begin on the redeemed earth with Christ as the root of Jesse ruling on the Throne.
2 "And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon."
No one is found worthy! What about Adam? Don’t we still look and say Adam was given Dominion didn’t the earth and all that God created wasn’t it given to him? After all God created man, He placed him in the Garden right? Didn’t God say he was all his (dominion)? Why doesn’t he come forward after all wasn’t he the one who brought it under the curse? Adam would have to say, “I forfeited my inheritance because of sin. It was mine, but I sinned it away. The devil cheated me out of it, and I no longer have any title to it.” The Apostles will be there and not one of them can say “I have the right to be the Kinsman redeemer, you and I are there as part of the bride, the Bride that is the church cannot say I have the right to claim it as Kinsman redeemer, we can’t we aren’t worthy. No one steps up to say, “I have title to that world.” Not a man in all God’s universe can say, “It is mine.” John begins to weep!
5 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."
Here is the Kinsman redeemer the Lamb, that is Jesus Christ, He takes the book that is, the scroll for He is worthy to unseal the book. In this book are the terms of redemption. Each time a seal is opened we see that the terms are in some way a Tribulation or a judgement one might say. Each seal carries a term of redemption. The price must be met for each of the terms contained or the possession would not be redeemed under the Law of Israel. So the payment is made as each vial and plague are poured out as each and every trumpet sounds the payment of the terms of Redemption for the earth are being met.
Adam lost possession that is dominion, the earth is still under the curse.
Genesis 3:17-18.
17”And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;”
Not only was the ground cursed, deserts, waste, barren lands would appear to be under the curse. All the vegetation is under the same curse. Thorns and thistles, weeds begin to spring up. All as a result of the corruption of their nature. All of which was brought on by the curse. Not only were the vegetables and minerals affected by the curse, so too were the animals, all were under the curse.
Romans 8:22 “For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”
Christ came to redeem all that Adam lost and He is a perfect redeemer a complete redeemer. He is the second and Last Adam. He will bring deliverance to everything that came under Adam’s curse. He will redeem the earth. The desert shall blossom like the rose. He will redeem the vegetables.
Isaiah 35:7 "And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes."
This is all fulfilled in Revelation 20 when Christ reigns on this earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. But the Tribulation must take place in order that the terms of redemption be met. Then the Lord will return with His Bride and all unbelievers will die. Then the 1000 year reign will begin on the redeemed earth with Christ as the root of Jesse ruling on the Throne.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The question is: Who owns the earth? And you still peddle this nonsense that the GrrrEaaaT Seven Year Tribulation must redeem the earth. You may not be a Word of Faith heretic but you sure do a good imitation! DHK and blessedwife318 have already addressed the redemption of the earth.
I have answered your question who owns the earth in several post on here, go find them. I have never read Word of Faith who wrote it?
- Status