Who Populates the Millennial Kingdom?

[revmwc]

There is a third group which will populate the Millennial Kingdom. Those born physically during the 1000 year period. Isaiah 65:20 is an interesting Millennial scripture. "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."
I was taught that this passage is showing those born in the Millennial. Those who trust Christ and then fall into sin are seen as being accursed at 100 years old, but still living in the Millennial. While the ones who reject Christ during that time will be given 100 years to trust Christ and if they haven't then the child shall die that is they will be put to death as they have had 100 years to receive the Lord. How do we know that some reject, we see Revelation 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Satan musters a large army as many as the sands of the sea who come against Christ and the Saints. They will all be under 100 years old and will have refused to believe on the savior.

 

[Darrell C]

There is a third group which will populate the Millennial Kingdom. Those born physically during the 1000 year period.

I wouldn't actually consider this a third group, seeing they descend from the believers who enter into the Millennial Kingdom, which, by the way, is the entire point of the thread, though we have been delightfully sidetracked, lol.

Could you explain what you mean by third group?


God bless.

 

[revmwc]

I wouldn't actually consider this a third group, seeing they descend from the believers who enter into the Millennial Kingdom, which, by the way, is the entire point of the thread, though we have been delightfully sidetracked, lol.

Could you explain what you mean by third group?


God bless.

Well two groups begin the population but soon after the beginning of the Millennial children will be born, thus a third younger population, a population who must make a choice to be saved or reject Christ.
They are born as we all are born totally depraved and without Christ.

 

[Darrell C]

Well two groups begin the population but soon after the beginning of the Millennial children will be born, thus a third younger population, a population who must make a choice to be saved or reject Christ.
They are born as we all are born totally depraved and without Christ.

So you view unbelievers as entering in the Kingdom?


God bless.

 

[revmwc]

So you view unbelievers as entering in the Kingdom?


God bless.

No I view that believers from the Tribulation enter. Those who are the Bride in their resurrected bodies will be there, and some teach that they will be climbing Jacob's ladder that is that the New Jerusalem will be hovering over the earth and that the bride will go back and forth into the New Jerusalem in the evening. However the believers from the Tribulation who are physically alive have children and those children are like children today, they will not be born saved but lost, covered until they know right from wrong but will need to believe on the Lord as Savior.

 

[Darrell C]

No I view that believers from the Tribulation enter. Those who are the Bride in their resurrected bodies will be there, and some teach that they will be climbing Jacob's ladder that is that the New Jerusalem will be hovering over the earth and that the bride will go back and forth into the New Jerusalem in the evening. However the believers from the Tribulation who are physically alive have children and those children are like children today, they will not be born saved but lost, covered until they know right from wrong but will need to believe on the Lord as Savior.

Agree with all of this apart from Jacob's Ladder (new one on me).

I think it is pretty clear from Christ's teaching that one will not enter into this Kingdom unless they are born again believers. I think we see that in several Parables as well as the Sheep and Goat Judgment.

And again, that is the intent of the OP, to discuss who populates that Kingdom and how that relates to the Rapture. We would have to take a view, like our Progressive Dispensational Brothers (or undercover A-mils as I like to consider them, lol), that the Tribulation is a local event that pertains to the Middle-East only. They view unbelievers as entering into the Millennial Kingdom.

The problem we see arise, if the view that Scripture teaches that all unbelievers are destroyed when Christ returns, is we cannot place the Rapture at the end of the Tribulation, because everyone would be glorified (all believers of the Church, both dead and living are resurrected into glorified bodies and caught up) which would leave no-one physically capable of producing those who rebel against God and join ranks with Satan at the end of the Millennial Kingdom.


God bless.

 

[revmwc]

Agree with all of this apart from Jacob's Ladder (new one on me).

I think it is pretty clear from Christ's teaching that one will not enter into this Kingdom unless they are born again believers. I think we see that in several Parables as well as the Sheep and Goat Judgment.

And again, that is the intent of the OP, to discuss who populates that Kingdom and how that relates to the Rapture. We would have to take a view, like our Progressive Dispensational Brothers (or undercover A-mils as I like to consider them, lol), that the Tribulation is a local event that pertains to the Middle-East only. They view unbelievers as entering into the Millennial Kingdom.

The problem we see arise, if the view that Scripture teaches that all unbelievers are destroyed when Christ returns, is we cannot place the Rapture at the end of the Tribulation, because everyone would be glorified (all believers of the Church, both dead and living are resurrected into glorified bodies and caught up) which would leave no-one physically capable of producing those who rebel against God and join ranks with Satan at the end of the Millennial Kingdom.


God bless.

Do you see children being born during the Millennial?
If so wouldn't they need to be saved, they wouldn't be born saved would they?
They will be physically born with a sin nature and thus satan mustering the army at the end of the Millennial.

 

[Darrell C]

Do you see children being born during the Millennial?
If so wouldn't they need to be saved, they wouldn't be born saved would they?
They will be physically born with a sin nature and thus satan mustering the army at the end of the Millennial.

Yes, I do see children being born. Revelation 20 demands this. We know those who rebel against God are not believers, so the only possible place they could be from is to be descendants of the believers who enter into the Kingdom.

I view the Millennial Kingdom, aside from the renovation of sorts we see in nature, to be much like this Age. The changes that do take place do not involve man in regards to his nature. Those who enter are born again believers like you and I, and when they have children, they will be born in the same condition they are today, and have been since Adam fell.

We might think they would have an advantage being born into a world that is a true Theocracy of righteousness and judgment, but the number that rebel show that even in the best of conditions...men will rebel against God.

I think that we may play a role which is similar to that of Angels in this Age. The Tribulation Martyrs will for sure, but that may be through direct contact.

Looking forward to that Day.


God bless.

 

[revmwc]

Yes, I do see children being born. Revelation 20 demands this. We know those who rebel against God are not believers, so the only possible place they could be from is to be descendants of the believers who enter into the Kingdom.

I view the Millennial Kingdom, aside from the renovation of sorts we see in nature, to be much like this Age. The changes that do take place do not involve man in regards to his nature. Those who enter are born again believers like you and I, and when they have children, they will be born in the same condition they are today, and have been since Adam fell.

We might think they would have an advantage being born into a world that is a true Theocracy of righteousness and judgment, but the number that rebel show that even in the best of conditions...men will rebel against God.

I think that we may play a role which is similar to that of Angels in this Age. The Tribulation Martyrs will for sure, but that may be through direct contact.

Looking forward to that Day.


God bless.

I have a written a book series on the book of revelation. Two are out one is in design and one is ready to go to the publisher

 

[Darrell C]

I have a written a book series on the book of revelation. Two are out one is in design and one is ready to go to the publisher

Yes I seem to recall you telling me about that before. Hope the book sales are good, my friend.


God bless.

 

[Greektim]

Wow you wrote a lot.

I'm not sure if I can even respond to all of this.

 

[Darrell C]

Wow you wrote a lot.

I'm not sure if I can even respond to all of this.

Just pick one topic for discussion and we can try to discuss it in one statement points,address.

The point is to try to get to a conclusion on one point. If I had to choose, I would probably want to center on a denial that there is a space between the two resurrections listed in Revelation 20. I am not saying you directly say this, but, that is the implication. As this thread centers primarily on "Who Populate the Millennial Kingdom," participation by those who take a symbolic approach to Revelation would, I would think, be relevant in addressing issues as to whether they speak of a literal event or if it is just representative of a broader issue that is relevant to history, rather than having a specific point in time when it is to be fulfilled.

I think all of us acknowledge that there is going to at least one resurrection, so where in man's history that will take place is relevant to all of us. And if there is indication that there are separate events, then that becomes more than relevant, but the central issue.


God bless.

 

[Greektim]

So let's narrow our discussion to Rev 20

It's not really going to do you any good to quote others, Tim, I am not interested in what others believe, but what you believe, and the Basis for that belief.

Ok... well the fact that I endorsed it would imply that it is stating what I believe. So read it if you want to know the view that I espouse.

I don't define resurrection, Scripture does, and that is simply not something that those familiar with Scripture really disagree about.

This is a disingenuous statement. You assume a definition when you assert your 3 resurrections view. The word itself is used various ways in Scripture. So to say "Scripture does" is not helpful at all.

Resurrection is resurrection, and in the fullest eschatological sense, the eternal body is the culmination of resurrection for both believers and unbelievers.

So here is YOUR definition which you base on Scripture. Therefore you do define resurrection. Don't be offended by that. This is what theology does. Just be genuine and admit such. Even admit that your definition seeks to be biblical.

As for this definition, it is a tautology. The word used can imply a physical resurrection as well as a spiritual one as well. However, and this is why I referred to your definition since I knew what you meant even when you didn't, I don't believe this kind of resurrection takes place multiple times in Rev 20. See my view as stated by Beale.

As far as not responding any more, I would remind you I had really only one simple question, and what follows is not necessarily a product of my response, but rather, a product of your endorsement of your approach.

My response or refusal to engage has to do with the time I can dedicate to this discussion. The longer the posts get (or the more frequent), the less time I have to engage. It is a simple matter of necessity. This dialogue is not high on my list. That goes for this board as well. Just last night I had to perform a funeral service. And I am preaching through Galatians on Sunday. So you can see I am dealing with bigger matters.

And I have to say, this...

As for prophecy, instead of assuming it is a forecast of future events (prophet as seer) I would rather see John as a prophet against other false prophets (see Rev 2:20) and preaching to the people of God (prophet as envoy).

...is a little disturbing to me.

Just not sure why (1) you would think that it's okay what we want something to mean is a valid approach, (2) why you would then charge me with defining Biblical terms, or (3) how you can redefine an understanding of Prophecy when most will acknowledge that Prophecy is first and foremost speaking about foretelling of events in Scripture.

Disturbing? Let's start with your startling assumptions in reverse. (3) I am not redefining anything. I am making observation of the prophets in the OT. You are the one with the assumption that says prophecy is "about foretelling of events." Sadly, most people assume this. Then you read through the prophets and you get a far different picture. (2) I charged you with coming up with definitions b/c we all do that, consciously or not. What I am actually doing is charging you with gross assumption. Prophets are preachers preaching a message of fidelity to God's covenant more than anything else. That is just a statistical fact. The foretelling is for encouragement. "Breaking covenant leads to exile. But fear not, people of God, for one day there will be a new covenant that will end this and God's anointed one will reign and..." But the bulk of OT prophecy is preaching against sin and unfaithfulness. Fact. (1) Please restate. I'm not sure what you are driving at in regards to being disturbed.

If someone asks me or you, Tim, "Are there still Prophets today," what would your response be?

I would say yes in an general sense. Pastors who are preaching are proclaiming the Word of God and thus engaging in the act of prophesy. The difference between today and the early church is that the NT prophets relied upon special revelation since they didn't have access to the NT at that point. However, the office of prophet in the specific sense has ended. I am a cessationist.

 

[Darrell C]

Ok... well the fact that I endorsed it would imply that it is stating what I believe. So read it if you want to know the view that I espouse.

Okay, go read MacArthur's teaching on the Millennial Kingdom, then we will come back and compare notes about what other people believe, lol.

I am already familiar with what you believe, Tim, no need to read from your resources. Now we get into the trenches of our own Eschatology and bring Scripture into it to verify why we believe what we believe.

So far, you have spent quite a bit of time complaining about the lengths of my posts, yet feel it's okay for you to do long responses.

This is a disingenuous statement. You assume a definition when you assert your 3 resurrections view. The word itself is used various ways in Scripture. So to say "Scripture does" is not helpful at all.

Again you present the same argument, yet you have ignored the Scripture I have given to support my argument, so I will just ask one question:

How did the woman at the well know that Messias cometh, and when He came He would tell them all?"

No need to spend a lot of time reasserting your view that I am the one who improperly understands what Prophecy is and make the mistake that it generally foretells or speaks of future events. I get it, that's your view of my approach. You're right, I'm wrong. So just answer this question and we will move on.

And out of time, should have left an hour or more ago, lol, so see you at the next appointed time.


God bless.

 

[percho]

(Christ the first fruit Sg.) Is not the kingdom of God the eternal ruling body, one in God through Christ, who at the return of Christ, (afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.) being dead in Christ resurrected and or if still alive changed incorruptible/immortal, to rule with Christ over the kingdoms of this world? These are married to Christ and neither marry, nor are given in marriage to one other. Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;

The only difference in the world of those being ruled over being, they are no longer subject to being deceived by Satan, the devil, for some period of time, I believe to be a thousand years.

After this there will be another resurrection and or change of the just and the unjust.

Then the end, of death ( For as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:14 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8)

YLT 1 Cor 15:24 then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --

 

[Greektim]

Clean slate fresh thread. How about that?

 

[Darrell C]

Clean slate fresh thread. How about that?

Sounds good, Tim.

I am thinking tomorrow may be my last day for a while, as I need to not only divert attention back to my company but I need to find another forum to visit. Baptist Board is one of the few that I have actually come back to over the years for any amount of time. It holds a special place in my heart because it is just about the first forum I ever joined.

So if you want to pick a topic, that is okay with me, but, preferably something that will allow us to examine Scripture on the subject.


God bless.